pH difference between Extract and All Grain

[oliver]

Just curious if this is a recipe editor bug, or that replacing base malt with extract will truly drop the pH this far? Is it because of the extract's minerality? It can't be that much minerality to drop it that far?

All grain is showing 5.53 pH and extract is showing 5.05

 

[oliver]

wait i think i figured it out... it's calculating JUST the grains, and thus dropping the pH very far in the calculator. Is this also true in real life?

 

[Yooper]

wait i think i figured it out... it's calculating JUST the grains, and thus dropping the pH very far in the calculator. Is this also true in real life?

Well, if you're steeping those grains, then yes, that would be the pH of that 'mash' or steep. Do you have this recipe set up as partial mash or extract? It's not a partial mash, so I think the mash pH should be n/a.

 

[oliver]

Well, if you're steeping those grains, then yes, that would be the pH of that 'mash' or steep. Do you have this recipe set up as partial mash or extract? It's not a partial mash, so I think the mash pH should be n/a.

Just trying to figure out if the editor can predict overall pH of preboil wort. Does acid / bicarbonate need to be added to extract beers? I would assume so?

 

[Yooper]

Just trying to figure out if the editor can predict overall pH of preboil wort. Does acid / bicarbonate need to be added to extract beers? I would assume so?

I don't think you can get a good prediction of the pH of the wort with our software. You maybe using LME that has some crystal malt in it, for example. When extract brewing, I think I would always stick with RO or other low alkalinity water and assume the preboil pH would be fine. It would be an interesting thought, but I would never add alkalinity to any beers without a pH measurement.

 

[oliver]

I don't think you can get a good prediction of the pH of the wort with our software. You maybe using LME that has some crystal malt in it, for example. When extract brewing, I think I would always stick with RO or other low alkalinity water and assume the preboil pH would be fine. It would be an interesting thought, but I would never add alkalinity to any beers without a pH measurement.

got it, i think i'm overthinking things.. I'm still chasing a good way to adequately calculate the minerality of extract beers. A lot of people like to do local IPA clones that could probably benefit from some mineral adjustments, and some dark stouts that might need a bicarbonate buffer, just not sure though.

The closest i've found, and these are not at all 100%.. Briess extract contains Ca: 50-100ppm ... Mg: ?? ... Na: 100-115ppm ... Cl: 25-35ppm ... SO4: 60-70ppm

 

[Yooper]

I think that extract is actually a good base, if those numbers are accurate! I wouldn't ever add alkalinity, even to stouts, in an extract batch. You'd have to maybe take the preboil pH to be sure, but I never made an extract stout that seemed to be suffering, flavorwise or fermentation wise) from a low pH.
Maybe for an IPA, I'd suggest some gypsum but I can't think of any other time I'd add anything.

 

[BOB357]

The mash pH was adjusted when making the extracts, so no further adjustment is necessary if you're just steeping grains. The relatively small drop in wort pH the steeping grains will cause, normally won't be enough to perceptibly impact the finished product. Also, distilled or RO water are the best choices for extract brewing. As Yooper said, a gypsum addition could help accentuate the hops in an IPA, but it can be added, to taste, at packaging time.

 

[oliver]

Maybe for an IPA, I'd suggest some gypsum but I can't think of any other time I'd add anything.

a gypsum addition could help accentuate the hops in an IPA,

or flip flop the ratio for NEIPAs. The issue with that though, is adding enough CaCl to reach 200ppm of Chloride significantly bumps the Calcium too, not super desirable for juicy beers. regardless, good advice.