Which water profile for Pilsner ?

Meaulnes

Meaulnes

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I plan to brew my first Pilsner. My recipe will use Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner malt and I have water that comes from the Auvergne mountains in France.
Here is its composition
Ca 4.1 / Mg 1.7 / Na 2.7 / Cl 0.9 / SO4 1.1 / HCO3 25.8.

All this seems very close to the Pilsen city's water profile
Ca 7 / Mg 3 / Na 2 / Cl 5 / SO4 5 / HCO3 25

However, it turns out that in Palmer's book for such a recipe he recommends the following profile:
Ca 50-100 / Mg 10 / SO4 50-100 / Cl 50-100 / RA -75-0
which seems quite far, especially for calcium and SO4.
I don't know what to think and do.
Thank you for advices.
 
Meaulnes said:
I plan to brew my first Pilsner. My recipe will use Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner malt and I have water that comes from the Auvergne mountains in France.
Here is its composition
Ca 4.1 / Mg 1.7 / Na 2.7 / Cl 0.9 / SO4 1.1 / HCO3 25.8.

All this seems very close to the Pilsen city's water profile
Ca 7 / Mg 3 / Na 2 / Cl 5 / SO4 5 / HCO3 25

However, it turns out that in Palmer's book for such a recipe he recommends the following profile:
Ca 50-100 / Mg 10 / SO4 50-100 / Cl 50-100 / RA -75-0
which seems quite far, especially for calcium and SO4.
I don't know what to think and do.
Thank you for advices.
Click to expand...

Pilsen's soft water is ideally suited for Bohemian Pilsner, while German pilsners are a little more bitter in the finish and not quite so "soft". Still, you want pretty soft water. Sulfate and noble hops don't really play well together, but bringing the calcium to 40 ppm or so can help avoid beer stone in the brewing gear, so you can do that with calcium chloride and some calcium sulfate, like @Ozarks Mountain Brew mentioned. "Less is more" is the best practice here.

Shoot for a mash pH of 5.3 or so, and use minimal additions to get there.
 
First of all, don’t get hung up on a region’s water profile. Brewers have been modifying water minerals for 200 years or more. They called it “ Burtonization” of water. It was named after Burton where it was first done. So it not very likely brewers use the water straight out of the tap for beer without modifying it.

Use RO or distilled water. Start with enough calcium sulfate and calcium chloride to get to 60-75 ppm of calcium. As mentioned above it will reduce beer stone and aid the yeast with flocculation. The malt brings huge amounts of chloride and to a smaller degree sulfates to the mash. I add mostly calcium sulfate on my German Pils, 6 grams of sulfate to 2 grams of calcium chloride for 7 gallons of beer. It’s drier and the bitterness lingers a bit more with the extra sulfate.

I believe water is important but often it’s effects are exaggerated. The biggest thing about lighter beers in general is to avoid alkaline water (high in bicarbonates). RO water will go a long way in keeping the beer smooth. Some brewers will remove alkalinity with acid, but it shows up in the finish of the beer. Adding minerals to RO water will change beer subtlety, but it won’t make or break the beer.

I brew and compete with German Pils a lot. The idea that water is critical to the beer is true, but not complicated. Use RO water or distilled water. Watch the pH from mash to pitch. The wort pH at pitch should be 5.1-5.2. That will allow the yeast to easily lower the beer finish pH to 4.3 or so.
 
yes you can use less salts, forgot to mention that, sometimes when you shoot for a certain ph the salts help you avoid using as much acid, its all in starting profile and recipe
 
I'm not sure if this helps, but for what it is worth... On @Nosybear 's advice brewing Shady Bohemian (dark czechlager) I used a very soft profile. Following is what I added to RO water. I am not a lager guy really at all, but this was a great beer, and I would not change a thing for the next brew.
Screenshot_20220209-105415_Brewfather.jpg


Here is the resulting profile
Screenshot_20220209-182905_Brewfather.jpg
 
All I know is for pilsner more so German Pilsner I find a heavier hand on the gypsum sure brings that crisp finishing bitterness.

It depends on what your after though.
 
Meaulnes said:
I plan to brew my first Pilsner. My recipe will use Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner malt and I have water that comes from the Auvergne mountains in France.
Here is its composition
Ca 4.1 / Mg 1.7 / Na 2.7 / Cl 0.9 / SO4 1.1 / HCO3 25.8.

All this seems very close to the Pilsen city's water profile
Ca 7 / Mg 3 / Na 2 / Cl 5 / SO4 5 / HCO3 25

However, it turns out that in Palmer's book for such a recipe he recommends the following profile:
Ca 50-100 / Mg 10 / SO4 50-100 / Cl 50-100 / RA -75-0
which seems quite far, especially for calcium and SO4.
I don't know what to think and do.
Thank you for advices.
Click to expand...
Brew with the water you have. It should make a decent Czech-style Pilsner. Palmer's profile looks more like northern Germany.
 
Thank you all for these reviews. It's a little difficult for a beginner to distinguish between sometimes distant opinions, but I'll try to do it anyway.

It seems that for many of you getting affordable reverse osmosis or distilled water is not a problem. It's quite different where I live (France). I fell back on this bottled water from the mountains of Auvergne (volcanic zone) which costs me 0.18 € / liter (0.15 $ / liter) and which is quite weakly mineralized.
 
Your water is so low in minerals I don't think you would gain anything by switching to RO or distilled water. Stick with the great, low cost water you are using. I think RO or distilled water most benefits brewers who have high concentration of minerals or who have a variable water source (different water source during different on the time year).
 
Meaulnes said:
It seems that for many of you getting affordable reverse osmosis or distilled water is not a problem. It's quite different where I live (France).
Click to expand...
Your tap water is quite neutral, so as already said you can use it with no trouble.

If you have an Aldi market near, they sell distilled water. The pharmacy or grocery often have this for making baby formula and other medical needs. But, again, your tap water has very low minerals and is good for brewing.

You may think about using Sodium Metabisulphate (Campden) or Potassium Metabisulphate (maybe 1/2 gram for 25 liters) to remove the chlorine and chloramine, this is helpful to do. Chlorine is not good for beer.
 
Yeah I'd just use the tap water. I've been doing this since 2017 and I still don't have a perfect handle on water so don't beat yourself up about it.
 
Meaulnes said:
Thank you all for these reviews. It's a little difficult for a beginner to distinguish between sometimes distant opinions, but I'll try to do it anyway.

It seems that for many of you getting affordable reverse osmosis or distilled water is not a problem. It's quite different where I live (France). I fell back on this bottled water from the mountains of Auvergne (volcanic zone) which costs me 0.18 € / liter (0.15 $ / liter) and which is quite weakly mineralized.
Click to expand...
I'm sorry, I missed your beginner brewer status.
If you do use tap water you just need to be sure and deal with the chlorine/chloromine. This is easily done as @Donoroto mentions with a campden tablet. I am pretty sure that a 1/2 tablet is plenty for a 20 liter batch.
Don't worry about water profiles for now, take some time and learn how to brew!
We are all pleased to help out with any questions you have along the way.
For now I would suggest that you post your brewing questions in the "Beginners" area of the forum.
 
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