Salt Aditions in Mash Chemistry Calculator - not sure about its accuracy

Discussion in 'Calculator Support Forum' started by roychoar, Jun 28, 2022.

  1. roychoar

    roychoar New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Dear team:
    I am working with Mash Chemistry and Brewing Water Calculator in order to have a list of the salts and phosphoric acid to add to my mash in order to meet my mash objectives, based on the expected Water Target Selection and the "Source Water" I would use in the process.

    It is the "Salt Aditions" section in this calculator the one that confuses me. It seems that this section "underestimates" the proportions of the base minerals in each of the salts. For instance:
    I want to reach 98ppm of Calcium in my 20.5 liters of mash water (https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=J2DQ7XL).
    The system validates me if I use a combination of 5.5g of Gypsum, 5.5g of Calcium Chloride (dihydrate), and 5.5g of Chalk.

    In order to double check these values, I executed an exercise with Brun´s Water´s spreadsheet. With the same combination of salts, Brun´s Water´s spreadsheet tells me that in the same amount of mash water I will exceed 200ppm of calcium, way beyond what Brewer´s Friend calculator assess.

    ¿ Am I missing something?

    Just in order to have a third approach to the calculation, someone found for me the percentages of the base ions in each of the salts. Using this information (please kindly see the attached file), I verified that the actual ppm of each ion in my mash will be closer to Brun´s Water spreadsheet than Brewer´s Friend Water Chemistry Salt Aditions section.

    Your kind hints will be greatly appreciated
    Best regards

    Rogelio
     

    Attached Files:

  2. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,425
    Likes Received:
    2,879
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Are the inputs, like the source water profile and whether the salts added to strike water only, the same in both BF and Brun Water?.
     
  3. roychoar

    roychoar New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hello BB!
    Yes, pretty much the same. The source water profile in Bru´n Water´s spreadsheet looks very much like Brewer´s Friend´s.

    Regarding the salts: actually, Brun Water´s spreadsheet requests you to enter the milligrams per liter of each salt (Brewer´s, instead, requests you the absolute total of each salt). Since one must say how much water will be used in each stage, the calculation is executed properly for each stage.

    Using the same values of salts, I also tested the expected ppms on two other applications. One called "Brew-o-matic" (available for PCs) and a cell phone app called "Birraps". In all of these I also arrive to the same results I got with Bru´n Water. Basically they tell me that my ppms of each ion will be around twice the values I see in Brewer´s.
     
  4. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    2,127
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Happily retired
    Location:
    Upper Michigan/Florida
    You can choose g/l, etc if you would like:
    upload_2022-6-30_15-13-13.png

    As far as the difference in calcium, I'd have to dig into the other calculators but I'm going to assume that they aren't taking into account that CaCO3 is not very soluble, and to dissolve it requires extraneous measures such as bubbling c02 through it, so they are assuming 100% solubility, while we are not.
     
  5. roychoar

    roychoar New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Hello Yooper:
    Thanks for the clarification. I missed the "g/l" option.

    Regarding your thoughts on CaCO3, I am not sure how the other applications assume solubility of it. You have a point that I should clear up with the authors of the other apps.

    My intention in adding CaCO3 to the mash is to meet the requisites a Brewer´s already available "Balanced Profile", from the Water Profile pulldown menu (that profile suggests 100 ppm of HCO3).

    Given that my mash points to a Belgian Blonde Beer (light colored, somewhat alcoholic, malty)... ¿ do you think that Brewer´s "Light Colored & Malty" profile would be more appropriate? This one requests zero of HCO3 in the mash.

    Your kind hints will be greatly appreciated.
    REgards, Rogelio
     
  6. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
    Staff Member

    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2013
    Messages:
    2,889
    Likes Received:
    2,127
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Female
    Occupation:
    Happily retired
    Location:
    Upper Michigan/Florida
    You only need as much HCO3 as needed to hit a mash pH of 5.2-5.5. So totally ignore any value of HCO3. You can definitely use the same profile but ignore the HCO3 always.
     
  7. roychoar

    roychoar New Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2022
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    1
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Thank you Yooper! I will have follow your advice.

    Best regards, Rogelio
     
    Donoroto likes this.

Share This Page

arrow_white