Late fermentable addition not reflected in original gravity.

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Myers

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When I list a fermentable as a late addition, it is not reflected in the calculation of the original gravity. If that addition is not checked as a late addition, then it is reflected in the original gravity. Why is the recipe editor not including late additions in its calculation of original gravity?
 
Myers said:
When I list a fermentable as a late addition, it is not reflected in the calculation of the original gravity. If that addition is not checked as a late addition, then it is reflected in the original gravity. Why is the recipe editor not including late additions in its calculation of original gravity?
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I would say that you aren't going to get any gravity points from a late addition. Typically a late addition would be add flavor or color,and there won't be any conversion taking place.
 
Myers said:
When I list a fermentable as a late addition, it is not reflected in the calculation of the original gravity. If that addition is not checked as a late addition, then it is reflected in the original gravity. Why is the recipe editor not including late additions in its calculation of original gravity?
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It depends on what 'fermentable' you're adding. If it's heavily modified or darker malt, and you're only mashing 15 minutes worth, likely that's accurate. OTOH, if you're adding say... 16 oz of Agave extract at flame out, yes, what will bump gravity up. If you're not seeing the SG change, deselect the late addition and it will calculate correctly. As far as I know anyway. I only do this with adjunct additives like, Agave, candi syrup, etc. For a late addition of small amounts of malt, I rarely see any gravity points.
 
well fruit always adds pts if added late as well
 
In other words, things that are fermentable as is, like sugars, fruit, etc. will immediately increase gravity, but things that are only potentially fermentable (malted grains) that need a mash time will not, and so ‘late addition’ in the latter case won’t add gravity.
 
Yeah, I jumped to the conclusion that the late additions would be steeping grains.
This is why this forum works!
 
Myers said:
When I list a fermentable as a late addition, it is not reflected in the calculation of the original gravity. If that addition is not checked as a late addition, then it is reflected in the original gravity. Why is the recipe editor not including late additions in its calculation of original gravity?
Click to expand...
I appreciate the responses to my posting; however, they don't address my quandary. A late fermentable, by the very fact that it is a fermentable, is going to add gravity points to the finished wort, regardless of whether it's a crystal malt steeping grain, honey, sugar, etc. -- that is, as long as it's given adequate time for extraction (leaching) of its sugars. Thus, whether the fermentable is added at the beginning of the mash or as a later addition to the mash, it is going to contribute sugars and thus gravity points. So, back to my question: Why does the BF recipe editor not include the contributed points of a late addition in its OG (original gravity) number, but when the addition is not checked as a "late mash tun addition" it is included in the OG number?

You might ask, why do I care? As one responder said, just don't check the late addition as a late addition and it will be included in the OG number, which can be done. The reason I care is that not checking as a late addition what is actually added as a late addition is reflected in BF's water chemistry as part of the mash (which it's not because it's a late addition), consequently affecting the water chemistry's calculation of the mash pH. Also, by checking a fermentable as a late addition, it reminds me when brewing that it is to be a late addition.
 
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Myers said:
I appreciate the responses to my posting; however, they don't address my quandary. A late fermentable, by the very fact that it is a fermentable, is going to add gravity points to the finished wort, regardless of whether it's a crystal malt steeping grain, honey, sugar, etc. -- that is, as long as it's given adequate time for extraction (leaching) of its sugars. Thus, whether the fermentable is added at the beginning of the mash or as a later addition to the mash, it is going to contribute sugars and thus gravity points. So, back to my question: Why does the BF recipe editor not include the contributed points of a late addition in its OG (original gravity) number, but when the addition is not checked as a "late mash tun addition" it is included in the OG number?
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not exactly sure why your having a problem, I went into my recipes and changed some fermentables to late addition in the tun and it still calculated it. The option for late addition doesn't change anything about the fermentability its there so anyone trying your recipe knows you want that ingredient added late in the boil is all. Its not like hops which time maters
 
Brew Cat said:
not exactly sure why your having a problem, I went into my recipes and changed some fermentables to late addition in the tun and it still calculated it. The option for late addition doesn't change anything about the fermentability its there so anyone trying your recipe knows you want that ingredient added late in the boil is all. Its not like hops which time maters
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I messed with late addition some more and now notice that it lists three late addition options: Mash Turn, Boil Kettle, Fermenter. I have been selecting the Boil Kettle option when I should have selected the Mash Turn option. That made the difference. When I did that, the late fermentable was included in the OG number. Thank you, Brew Cat!
 
Myers said:
that is, as long as it's given adequate time for extraction (leaching) of its sugars.
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Grains don’t have sugars, the starch it has must be converted by enzymes.

The other stuff is sugar, of course.

Late additions of grain do not add fermentable sugars. Late additions of sugar clearly do add, but it is typically not listed as a late addition, because it doesn’t matter when you add it.

Perhaps it’s splitting hairs, but I hope that helps make some sense?
 
Donoroto said:
Grains don’t have sugars, the starch it has must be converted by enzymes.

The other stuff is sugar, of course.

Late additions of grain do not add fermentable sugars. Late additions of sugar clearly do add, but it is typically not listed as a late addition, because it doesn’t matter when you add it.

Perhaps it’s splitting hairs, but I hope that helps make some sense?
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Late additions of grain can (and do) add some fermentable sugars. Items like roasted malt, crystal malt, etc, do not have to be converted and 15 minutes of steeping (mash capping, late addition, etc) can contribute to the OG.
 
Yooper said:
Late additions of grain can (and do) add some fermentable sugars. Items like roasted malt, crystal malt, etc, do not have to be converted and 15 minutes of steeping (mash capping, late addition, etc) can contribute to the OG.
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Ah, thanks for the correction.

So if I add 1 pound of Crystal 40 as a late addition, does my OG increase? And if yes, does the recioe calculator tell me that?
 
Donoroto said:
Ah, thanks for the correction.

So if I add 1 pound of Crystal 40 as a late addition, does my OG increase? And if yes, does the recioe calculator tell me that?
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Yes and yes
 
Now if you want to add something to the fermenter you click late addition to fermenter will not affect the original gravity but it shows you the pts added and reflects as a lower FG which will add to the ETOH
 
Amendment
When I played with the recipe maker I just added simple sugar to the late addition fermenter which of course will lower the final gravity. I need to go back and play with adding fruit to the fermenter aka a secondary. Usually don't add malt to a secondary but worth further investigation
 
Brew Cat said:
Amendment
When I played with the recipe maker I just added simple sugar to the late addition fermenter which of course will lower the final gravity. I need to go back and play with adding fruit to the fermenter aka a secondary. Usually don't add malt to a secondary but worth further investigation
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It shouldn’t lower your FG. What do you mean “of course lower the final gravity”?
 
Yooper said:
It shouldn’t lower your FG. What do you mean “of course lower the final gravity”?
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Im sorry I meant adding the cane sugar would dry out the beer reflected in a lower gravity not the malt and wasn't sure about the fruit juice
 
does late addition to the mash effect the pre-boil gravity calculation?
 
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