HELP WATERY BEER

[Brewer #465726]

Hello evryone, as you all can read from the title i'va made a beer and for some reason it feels watery and it doesn't linger.

The beer i made is an Amber Ale and i brewd it with the BIAB method, i also made a couple of adjustments for my brew since i'm a beginner and i dont have the proper equipment, in particular.

Ingredients (25liters/6.6gal batch)
Muntos - liquid wheat malt extract 3Kg (6.6 lb)
Castle Malting - Chateau crystal (150 EBC) 1Kg (2.2 lb)
Castle Malting - Chateau Munich (25 EBC) 1Kg (2.2 lb)
Simcoe hops 100g (3.5 oz) total - one third at 60 minutes, one third at 30 min and the last third at 0 min
US-05 yeast

Procedure:
Since i don't have a pot big enough to do a mash for the whole 25 liters i've done it in a much smaller volume of 10-12 liters (i think this method is called partial boil but i'm not sure), i've steeped the grains for 40 minutes using a bag, then i removed it, added the liquid malt extraxt and i've brought to a boil and from the moment it started boiling i'va started adding the hops at the 60, 30 and 0 minutes marks. After the boiling i put the must in the fermenter and i added the rest of the water (room temperature), then i waited untill it cooled down at the proper temperatrure to add the yeast (i don't have the equipments to cool the must quickly so i opted for this methos sinche it seemed the best i could have done).
The OG was 1.050 and after two weeks the FG was 1.014, for an ABV of 4.7%, then i bottled the beer with some sugar for the carbonation and let i age for 5-6 weeks.

The beer has a nice color (a bit dark but it's ok, i know that controlling the colour of an amber beer can be difficult for a beginner), it taste pretty good but it feels a bit watery and it doen't linger, i don't know how to explain it properly but the flavour "disappear quickly". I know that the water could impact the flavour but the tap water that i used seemed identical to any other kind of water, other than that i know that the whole process is anything but efficent since the lack of equipments but i dont know where is the biggest problem. If some of you could give me some advice i'd appreciate it.

 

[Craigerrr]

Looks like the LME would get you 3.5%ABV (approximately).

I suspect that the Munich malt is a CaraMunich.
If this is the case you would only get flavor and color from the munich and crystal malts, there would be much if any fermentable sugars contributed by them.
Crystal and Cara malts need a base malt like two row, or pale ale, or others.
These base malts would provide the enzymes needed to convert the starches in those other malts into fermentable sugars.

Lets wait for others to confirm or deny what I am saying, but please look up the munich malt that you used. there are many...

 

[Minbari]

What was your gravity when you were done boiling?

 

[Donoroto]

As mentioned, there are not a lot of fermentable sugars in that batch. I tend to use not more than 50% wheat.

Mouthfeel and the foamy head come from proteins, and there are a few possibilities why you might not have a lot if them.

Not enough protein to start with. Which grains exactly were used, and how were they crushed?

Mash too hot. Above around 155-160 F the proteins get damaged in a way, and don’t help the beer. How hot was the steeping water?

Others will chime in too.

 

[Craigerrr]

As mentioned, there are not a lot of fermentable sugars in that batch. I tend to use not more than 50% wheat.

Mouthfeel and the foamy head come from proteins, and there are a few possibilities why you might not have a lot if them.

Not enough protein to start with. Which grains exactly were used, and how were they crushed?

Mash too hot. Above around 155-160 F the proteins get damaged in a way, and don’t help the beer. How hot was the steeping water?

Others will chime in too.

The wheat was liquid malt extract, would it not ferment out?

 

[Donoroto]

The wheat was liquid malt extract, would it not ferment out?

Yes, but it was 100% of the extract bill. I’m waiting to hear how hot and yhe crush on the soaking grains.

 

[Dave Y]

Castle Malting - Chateau crystal (150 EBC) 1Kg (2.2 lb)
Castle Malting - Chateau Munich (25 EBC) 1Kg (2.2 lb)

The crystal won't contribute much fermentable, but the 2nd one looks like an approximate of Munich II, which should be fermentable to some degree IF it's mashed longer.

If you followed traditional "partial mash" instructions, you probably only mashed those grains for a set period of time - 20-30 minutes, which will extract very little, if any fermentable sugars.

@Donroto is right though, was the grain crushed? Was it crushed for BIAB? and how hot was the wort when you mashed the grains?

Your description of 'watery' sounds like an incomplete mash or incomplete extraction. I just (re)did my Rye Pilsner today, all grain. it's 25% rye and is a bit of a frustrating brew for 10# of malt in an 18 gallon kettle. I mashed close to 2 hours to make my numbers. Rye is a difficult dance partner on brew day.

Anyway, so on the surface, you have a beer with 11 pounds of malt, only 6.6 of it is a highly fermentable contributor. You got 4.7 ABV, which isn't bad considering.

 

[Brewer #465726]

As mentioned, there are not a lot of fermentable sugars in that batch. I tend to use not more than 50% wheat.

Mouthfeel and the foamy head come from proteins, and there are a few possibilities why you might not have a lot if them.

Not enough protein to start with. Which grains exactly were used, and how were they crushed?

Mash too hot. Above around 155-160 F the proteins get damaged in a way, and don’t help the beer. How hot was the steeping water?

Others will chime in too.

I don't think that the is a lack fermentable sugars since i had a good ABV and I used a liquid extract, for what I know the special grains that I used are for the colour and aroma. I didn't crush the grains, the shop where I bought all the stuff crushed them. From what you said the problem is the temperature because I didn't use a thermometer, I did it by "feelings" since I thought that proteins weren't that important, probably during the boiling I heated too much and fucked up the proteins of the liquid extract and the special grains.

 

[Brewer #465726]

The crystal won't contribute much fermentable, but the 2nd one looks like an approximate of Munich II, which should be fermentable to some degree IF it's mashed longer.

If you followed traditional "partial mash" instructions, you probably only mashed those grains for a set period of time - 20-30 minutes, which will extract very little, if any fermentable sugars.

@Donroto is right though, was the grain crushed? Was it crushed for BIAB? and how hot was the wort when you mashed the grains?

Your description of 'watery' sounds like an incomplete mash or incomplete extraction. I just (re)did my Rye Pilsner today, all grain. it's 25% rye and is a bit of a frustrating brew for 10# of malt in an 18 gallon kettle. I mashed close to 2 hours to make my numbers. Rye is a difficult dance partner on brew day.

Anyway, so on the surface, you have a beer with 11 pounds of malt, only 6.6 of it is a highly fermentable contributor. You got 4.7 ABV, which isn't bad considering.

Yes I added the second type of grains to add some fermentable sugars since I wanted a higher ABV, I steeped them together for 40 minutes, then added the extract and then the boiling. I didn't control the temperature at all so I think that was the problem, I probably destroyed the proteins. I also didn't crushed the grains myself, the shop I bought the ingredients did it for me.

 

[Craigerrr]

Proteins contribute as mentioned above by Don.
It is however the enzymes that convert the starches in the grains to fermentable sugars. If you "soaked" them too hot, or not long enough you would not get the conversion, and therefore would not have the added sugars to be fermented into alcohol. For the enzymes to be able to create fermentable sugars (that the yeast will be able to consume) mash temperature needs to be somewhere between 145F and 158F. The other factors is time, a typical time period is 60 minutes. Conversion may take place in under 60 minutes, or it may take longer.

You say above that you got a good ABV, how did you calculate this?

 

[Brewer #465726]

Proteins contribute as mentioned above by Don.
It is however the enzymes that convert the starches in the grains to fermentable sugars. If you "soaked" them too hot, or not long enough you would not get the conversion, and therefore would not have the added sugars to be fermented into alcohol. For the enzymes to be able to create fermentable sugars (that the yeast will be able to consume) mash temperature needs to be somewhere between 145F and 158F. The other factors is time, a typical time period is 60 minutes. Conversion may take place in under 60 minutes, or it may take longer.

You say above that you got a good ABV, how did you calculate this?

After the boiling I added the must and the water in the fermenter, I waited till it cooled down to room temperature, added the yeast and took a sample to measure the OG, after the fermentation ended I took another sample to measure the FG and with a formula I calculated the ABV (OG-FG)x131,25. It's not a problem if alcohol, it's a problem of taste, it taste good but it disappear quickly, it's not "persistent" like other beers.

 

[Donoroto]

Yes I added the second type of grains to add some fermentable sugars since I wanted a higher ABV, I steeped them together for 40 minutes, then added the extract and then the boiling. I didn't control the temperature at all so I think that was the problem, I probably destroyed the proteins. I also didn't crushed the grains myself, the shop I bought the ingredients did it for me.

Ok, grains were crushed. This is good.
Yes, you got a decent ABV, so this us not bad either.

The heat does not necessarily destroy the proteins, but they can be changed in a way that kind of causes watery, lifeless beer. A cheap ($9) thermometer will help a lot. Walmart?

As Craigerr notes, the heat definitely hurts the enzymes that convert starches to sugars. That has an effect too.

Drink it, enjoy it best you can, and next time do it the same way, but watch the steeping temperature, go around 150F.
Oh, and with BIAB, it helps to have a finer crush, so ask them to mill it twice if they can. (And if they can’t, ah well. It will be fine).

 

[Craigerrr]

Brew, learn, repeat!

 

[Brew Cat]

It sounds like he steeped the grains not mashed them which actually should help with body. 100% wheat extract wouldn't be my choice

 

[Donoroto]

It sounds like he steeped the grains not mashed them which actually should help with body. 100% wheat extract wouldn't be my choice

I agree on both. But if he steeped them at, say, 180…

 

[Brew Cat]

I agree on both. But if he steeped them at, say, 180…

Well I'm not sure that would matter much. If you're steeping your not going for conversion usually looking for flavor and color. I've read about tossing the seeping grains at the start of the boil and then pulling them when the wort comes to a boil. That being the 180f range

 

[Craigerrr]

After the boiling I added the must and the water in the fermenter, I waited till it cooled down to room temperature, added the yeast and took a sample to measure the OG, after the fermentation ended I took another sample to measure the FG and with a formula I calculated the ABV (OG-FG)x131,25. It's not a problem if alcohol, it's a problem of taste, it taste good but it disappear quickly, it's not "persistent" like other beers.

What were the OG and FG numbers?

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

I suspect that the Munich malt is a CaraMunich

If this is the case then temperature would not matter because CaraMunich does not have any diastatic power. Neither does LME nor crystal malts. In this case there would be no enzymes to convert any starches. If regular Munich malt was used, and the temperature wasn't too high, then there would be some enzymes present.

What were the OG and FG numbers?

The OG was 1.050 and after two weeks the FG was 1.014, for an ABV of 4.7%

 

[Sandy Feet]

Above, it was 1.050 to 1.014.
I know Craig had some luck with the grain/extract combo. I never did. When I did extract beers, they did lack something. You can call it watery or lack of mouthfeel, or whatever, but I did have that issue. It was probably the extract that I was using.
Hopefully, Craig can help you out.
For me, I would save up for a nice 15 or 16 gallon kettle and a burner big enough to evenly heat it, scale back the recipe to 5 gallons (19L), and just use grain (milled correctly for BIAB). My beers radically improved going all grain, and I absolutely love the one I just made since it had time to sit. I was drinking it out of a mini Oktoberfest boot on the Zoom meeting.

 

[Craigerrr]

If this is the case then temperature would not matter because CaraMunich does not have any diastatic power. Neither does LME nor crystal malts. In this case there would be no enzymes to convert any starches. If regular Munich malt was used, and the temperature wasn't too high, then there would be some enzymes present.

Thanks, I guess I missed those numbers.