Esters in witbier

[jb1986]

Hello,

I brew a witbier 2months ago and I have the feeling it tastes a lot like banana (that's ok) and alcohol or solvant.

It's for sure drinkable and other ppl like it but I'm not sure if it's normal or not.

I used the 11g of lalbrew belgian wit yeast in 20l. In the description it's written:
"Aroma and flavor is somewhat estery with banana notes".
What do they mean with estery? Alcohol? A lot or just a little bit?

It was a blue moon clone. Temperature during fermentation never went over 22° but OG was 1.058 instead of 1.055 and FG was 1.01 instead of 1.016.

Was there an issue with my pitching? Is this a normal flavor? ...?

 

[Donoroto]

it tastes a lot like banana (that's ok) and alcohol or solvant.

In some very-high Alcohol beers (9% or more?) some 'alcohol' is expected.

For your beer, I think you have some Fusel Alcohols. These higher-order alcohols come from a too-warm fermentation. They taste more like a solvent.

"Too warm" is relative: It depends on the yeast.

With the name Fusel Alcohols, research it on the web and see if this agrees with what you are tasting. If yes, then you can see how to solve it too.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yup my limited understanding with these Belgian wheat strains that like to throw bannan bubblegum Cloves is: high ferm temp = more bannana hotter again bubblegum or cooler ferms more Cloves.

Also fermenting these with "open fermentation" promotes more ester production open meaning lid on loosly or foil over airlock with no liquid to cause back pressure on yeast.

I recently fermented fermenis BE-256 22c pitch then let free rise to 26c (which it attained day 2) for the duration of fermentation.

It's quite boozy at 8+%ABV well it's banannary and has this fusel style hot alcohol warmth you speak of.

I'm just letting this big hitter condition I'm sure it will meld in with time.
I suspect this might be a good move for you.

Now there is a pitch rate side to this as well lower pitching promoting the yeast stress /ester production In fermentation.

DON loves his wheat's I bet he knows these yeasts well

 

[Mark Farrall]

Esters is a bloody broad description. There's a lot of beer aromas and flavours that come from esters and it's generally an aroma that reminds of you of something plant based. For white beer yeast (wit and weisse) it's often referring to the banana/bubblegum aromas.

With these yeast you can also get another big group of aromas and flavours in beer, phenolics. On the nice side of phenolics you'll hear words like woody, spicy, herbal, vanilla. Phenolics also have a bad side, like plastic, dumpster, rot. Some people will talk about all phenolics as bad. They're not, many times they're great, but get some of the bad aromas/flavours or too much of the good ones and you'll remember them forever.

For the white beer yeast they can give you a clove like phenolic flavour. And depending on your process this could be missing, muted or over the top.

And for these beers there's not really a normal. Some are really muted like Blue Moon. Others are over the top. It's largely up to you what you prefer. Having drunk lots of these, there's generally a few approaches. English speaking countries tend to brew either the muted or the over the top versions. In Belgium there's variation, but all of them are more expressive than something like a Blue Moon, but none are near the over the top versions. And some of their variation is driven by different grains or herbs, rather than pushing the yeast to be more expressive.

 

[Minbari]

In some very-high Alcohol beers (9% or more?) some 'alcohol' is expected.

For your beer, I think you have some Fusel Alcohols. These higher-order alcohols come from a too-warm fermentation. They taste more like a solvent.

"Too warm" is relative: It depends on the yeast.

With the name Fusel Alcohols, research it on the web and see if this agrees with what you are tasting. If yes, then you can see how to solve it too.

First thing came to my mind too. The extra temp will contribute to the isoamyl acetate in beer that will give that banana flavor.

 

[jb1986]

But is 22°c during first 2 days high temp? Yeast description says it should be between 18 and 22.

What do you mean with muted?

Anything that looks wrong with my og and fg? Can that happen ?

 

[Minbari]

But is 22°c during first 2 days high temp? Yeast description says it should be between 18 and 22.

What do you mean with muted?

Anything that looks wrong with my og and fg? Can that happen ?

Couple things. Where was it measured 22C? That is as little high, but if that was measured on the surface of the fermentor, then it could be 2-3 degrees higher internally.(heat from yeast)

OG and FG shouldn't be much different based on temp. Its just a matter of how quickly it fermented to based on temp and how did temp effect the process.
How long did you let it go after all appearant air lock activity stopped?

 

[jb1986]

Couple things. Where was it measured 22C? That is as little high, but if that was measured on the surface of the fermentor, then it could be 2-3 degrees higher internally.(heat from yeast)

OG and FG shouldn't be much different based on temp. Its just a matter of how quickly it fermented to based on temp and how did temp effect the process.
How long did you let it go after all appearant air lock activity stopped?

It was measured from both tilt and grainfather fermenter(in picture). Tilt was always bit colder (~0.3°).

It started to ferment very quickly but total was 12 days. I waited for 3 consecutive days with same gravity to bottle. But its true that activity was low in the end. Like 1 bubble every 25-30 seconds.

And my question was more: is it normal to have fg lower than expected when og is higher than expected? Shouldnt fg be higher as well?

Or was it under pitched? I used 11gr for 18l. They say 50-100l / hl. Should I have used 2 packs?

 

[Zambi]

Don't get too hung up on figures
They are calculations depending on set up.
Grain absorption differ, boil off differs, taste buds differ
I took a long time to appreciate a weizen as I got a low treshold for cloves
Same for witbier: i figured they taste like winegums. Could only drink 1 and only in summer

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

A single sachet of dried yeast for 18L of 1.058 wort is fine. Although it's getting close to benefitting from a second. Your temperature was fine too. Fermentis' web site says the ideal range for BE-256 is ideally 18-26°C (64.4-78.8°F). For your gravity I suspect a measurement error. What did you use measure gravity? If it's the Tilt then that would be your problem, because they are notorious for inaccurate gravity readings during and after fermentation. This is due to kreuzen and CO2 bubbles clinging to it and affecting the gravity reading. If you used a hydrometer, did you adjust for temperature of the sample? Even for refractometers, you need to let the sample cool in order to get an accurate reading.

 

[Donoroto]

Bunch of comments:

• 22 C should have been OK. The graph looks quite normal.
• Banana/clove (esters) are desired (as you noted), so this is good.
• When OG is higher, FG is generally higher too. Not always though.
• Underpitching is good for Hefeweitzens, you get more esters. Underpitching will not cause an alcohol flavor. 058 to 010 is 6.3%, that too should not give an alcohol flavor, although it's relatively strong for the style it is OK.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Maybe you just don't like this beer.
It looks like you did a great job brewing it.
I'd give it some more time sit on it for awhile brew and drink another beer then come back to it.
Wheat beer should be drunk fresh though.

 

[Minbari]

It was measured from both tilt and grainfather fermenter(in picture). Tilt was always bit colder (~0.3°).

It started to ferment very quickly but total was 12 days. I waited for 3 consecutive days with same gravity to bottle. But its true that activity was low in the end. Like 1 bubble every 25-30 seconds.

And my question was more: is it normal to have fg lower than expected when og is higher than expected? Shouldnt fg be higher as well?

Or was it under pitched? I used 11gr for 18l. They say 50-100l / hl. Should I have used 2 packs?

*Shrugs*. Everything looks pretty normal. Only thing I would have changed is longer aging after bubbles quit. Maybe 7 days or so. Possible that the Fussels might have mellowed. Give them another week or so to age and see how they are.

As@Trialben said, maybe you just don't like this one lol