Can I do this?

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by Zambezi Special, Jan 20, 2022.

  1. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    Well, of course I can, but would it work?
    My 2 small fermenters are in use, so I am looking at using my 30 litre fermenter. Now if I do that, I may as well make 10 litre beer.
    I got a big pot, but it doesn't fit my cooler box for mashing, so I want to use my "standard" pot.
    My idea:
    Bring 7.5 litre water to 72-74 oC, add the grains and mash for an hour (grain bill will be around 2.4 kg. That's not too thick is it?)
    Drain grains (biab), maybe sparge to an amount that the pot can handle (around 8-8.5 litre), boil for an hour, but keep adding boiling water to the same amount as evaporation.
    Cool, move to fermenter and if gravity readings allow, add cooled boiled water to the fermenter till volume is 10 litre.
    Doable?
    Am I re-inventing the wheel?

    I use biab, recipe is still a bit open but looking at a 5% beer (ABV), Belgian pale ale
     
  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    12,752
    Likes Received:
    17,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    I suppose your ending gravity will be the same as your preboil if your continuing to dilute it through the boil.

    I don't see why not.
    Could you sparge collect in bucket/fermentor then fill two pots to boil down to starting volume?

    Make sure you incorporate them grains well in that thick mash or you may get crap conversion.
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  3. soccerdad

    soccerdad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    991
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    South Georgia
    I'm not sure I fully understand, but it sounds like you have 2 kettles - one bigger and one smaller. Many BIAB brewers mash in the larger pot, then pull the grain bag and dunk it in the smaller pot (dunk sparge) to further rinse sugars from the grain.

    Just a hypothetical case. 1 mash 2.5kg of grain in 8 litres of water 2 when mash is done, move grain bag to a pot or bucket with 3 litres of water (temp doesn't matter) 3 move that grain around to rinse as much sugar as you can from the grain 4 suspend the grain above the sparge water to let it drain (colander?) as the primary kettle heats toward boil 5 add the sparge water to the initial mash water. Some folks squeeze the bag rather than just let it drain. Either works.
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  4. Minbari

    Minbari Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,310
    Likes Received:
    1,975
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    fuel hauler
    Location:
    STL
    I add water to my boil pot as I go sometimes. Just add slowly so you don't kill the boil.
     
    Trialben and soccerdad like this.
  5. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    The limitation would really be in the mash.
    2.5 kg grain in 7.5 litre water
    I normally add the grains to the water (in a bag) stir a couple of times and then move the pot into a cooler box, lined with a duvet. Close and don't touch again.


    After the mash, I could use my big pot (I didn't think of that initially)
    Either add (close to boiling) water during the boil, or start with a couple litres boiling water and add the wort to it.
    I cannot boil 2 pots at the same time
     
    Trialben likes this.
  6. soccerdad

    soccerdad Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2015
    Messages:
    578
    Likes Received:
    991
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    South Georgia
    Just a reminder, with a dunk sparge the water doesn't need to be heated.
     
    Zambezi Special and Sunfire96 like this.
  7. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    I better be testing if I can actually boil and cool my big pot!
    Heating the sparge water will help me get the lot to the boil. Capacity of my stove could be better.
    I'm trying to get enough money together for another set of solar panels and then I can use my nice and shiny electric mash/boiler ;)
    And get temperature controlled fermentation, but all that is a bit off topic for now.
     
    Megary likes this.
  8. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    OK
    Looks like I cam make this work.

    As for the beer I would like to make...
    Sort of Belgian pale ale (with kveik)
    For 10 litre in fermenter (no trub loss)
    1200 gr maris otter pale ale (49 %)
    800 gr pilsner (32.7 %)
    250 caramalt 40 (10.2 %)
    200 weevilly wheat (8.2 %)

    Fuggle (4.5 %) 10 gr at 60 min
    Fuggle (4.5 % ) 10 gr at 30 min
    Saaz (2.4 %) 10 gr at 5 min

    1 hr mash at 65 oC

    Brewhouse efficiency 70 - 65 % resp
    Pre boil 1.047 1.043
    OG 1.053 1.049
    IBU 22 23
    BU/GU 0.41 0.46
    ABV 5.4 % 5 %
    EHC 12.6 12.6
    But real gravity of the mash will be higher due to later water additions.
    I assume even higher than OG as I will have to add water to the fermenter to make up 10 litres.

    Anyway, would the recipe give me a nice, easy drinkable beer?
     
    Trialben and Minbari like this.
  9. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2020
    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Wouldn't adding water dilute the wort, lowering OG?

    Of course, you are not chasing abv but a larger volume of lower abv beer.
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  10. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    I calculated for a 10 litre batch, but the pot will only boil around 8 litres comfortably.
    So, I figure that the gravity at the end of the boil will be higher. And after adding water to the fermenter it should (hopefully) be close to calculated OG.
    I may well be using the wrong terminology.....

    What do you think of the recipe?
     
  11. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2020
    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer
    Location:
    Atlanta
    Seems like a fairly plain beer, balanced but with slightly more malt than bitter, but the kviek will give it dimension and a bit of spicy from the saaz. The fuggles will give it a nice muted bitterness. I am sure I would enjoy a glass of it!
     
    Trialben and Zambezi Special like this.
  12. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    10,140
    Likes Received:
    8,078
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    It's an old trick, brew to a higher gravity then dilute. It's how I got started before buying a large kettle.
     
    Trialben and Zambezi Special like this.
  13. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    (Final) question before brewing tomorrow (weather permitting):
    Does it matter if the extra water is added to the fermenter instead of the boiling pot?
    Obviously: if to the fermenter, it can be cold or room temperature (boiled to be on the safe side)
    If to the pot, it should be close to boiling.

    Adding to fermenter would be easiest,
    And helps in cooling the wort...
     
  14. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    12,752
    Likes Received:
    17,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Either or I'd add to the boil but.
    See what others have to say:)
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    10,140
    Likes Received:
    8,078
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Fermentor, for the reasons you mentioned
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  16. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2020
    Messages:
    2,848
    Likes Received:
    4,819
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired Engineer
    Location:
    Atlanta
    No difference, whatever's easiest
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  17. Zambezi Special

    Zambezi Special Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,674
    Likes Received:
    4,248
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In the hot Zambezi Valley
    So I brewed this over the weekend.
    I forgot about volume displacement by the grains. Luckily the pot was just big enough.
    Grains were mashed at 65 oC, in 8 litre water.
    After the mash, I dunked, squeezed etc the grains as I needed (wanted) the extra water anyway. I estimate the volume at pre- boil at around 8-8.5 litre.
    Pre-boil gravity was 1055-1056 (just before boil and after temperature correction).
    I cooled by putting the pot in cold water in the sink (as usual). Once it cooled for a bit I added cold water (from fridge) to the pot. This to have a bit of a better idea about the volume and a better mix Volume added was 2.75 litre (2 litre jug and a wine bottle full).
    All moved to fermentor and gravity reading was done in the last bit left in pot:
    Hydrometer 1.049 (after temp correction, lot of debris in sample though)
    Refractometer readings 10.5 and 11

    Added mangrove jack voss and now we wait...
    Pretty happy with the way things went. Slight panic when I went to put the fermentor into the (non working) chest freezer. Had to re-arrange the other fermentors to make this big one fit.
    I'm using the freezer as a cooler box, to level out temperature differences between day and night
     
  18. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    12,752
    Likes Received:
    17,015
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Sounds like a successful brew day Zambezi awesome stuff.
     
    Sunfire96 and Zambezi Special like this.

Share This Page

arrow_white