Adding salts to boil is changing mash pH

[Sunfire96]

For an extract recipe, I'm adding salts to the boil for my target profile. The mash pH for my steeping grains is where I want it to be, but adding salts to the boil is changing the mash pH in the calculator.

Before salts addition:

After boil salts addition:

 

[GFHomebrew]

For an extract recipe, I'm adding salts to the boil for my target profile. The mash pH for my steeping grains is where I want it to be, but adding salts to the boil is changing the mash pH in the calculator.

Before salts addition:
View attachment 18279

After boil salts addition:
View attachment 18280

That's right adding brew salts will affect mash PH slightly usually in a good way .
I usually aim 5.4 on the water calc i mainly use acid to bring it down to my target the salts will get me some of the way there depending on the grist.

What's your mash PH with the salts in?
Remember it's an estimate too.

 

[Sunfire96]

That's right adding brew salts will affect mash PH slightly usually in a good way .
I usually aim 5.4 on the water calc i mainly use acid to bring it down to my target the salts will get me some of the way there depending on the grist.

What's your mash PH with the salts in?
Remember it's an estimate too.

Ben I'm adding them to the boil kettle, not during the mash

 

[GFHomebrew]

Ben I'm adding them to the boil kettle, not during the mash

Oh right interesting never done that.
Ignore my comments
Oh extract right well that changes it up...

Guess that's where a ph meter is handy and I'm pretty sure these extract mob use salts in there production or that's what I've herd.

 

[Sunfire96]

Oh right interesting never done that.
Ignore my comments
Oh extract right well that changes it up...

Guess that's where a ph meter is handy and I'm pretty sure these extract mob use salts in there production or that's what I've herd.

I was mostly trying to point out an error in the recipe calculator

 

[Sunfire96]

What do you think @Pricelessbrewing? Is the calculator just assuming all salts will affect mash pH even though "boil" is selected?

Recipe is called "west coast extract" btw

 

[Pricelessbrewing]

I'll have to defer to @Yooper for all things chemistry related at the moment still, can you take a look at this?. I really just don't understand the mash pH indicator in the top left, and how/why it defers from the linked water calculator so often.

 

[Nosybear]

What do you think @Pricelessbrewing? Is the calculator just assuming all salts will affect mash pH even though "boil" is selected?

Recipe is called "west coast extract" btw

There is no way kettle salts can affect mash pH. If the calculator is producing these results, it's producing incorrect results. The calculator doesn't predict pH at the end of the boil (I wish it would....). Kettle salts would affect that but there's no way it can affect mash pH - they're added after the mash is complete!

 

[AHarper]

The calculator doesn't predict pH at the end of the boil (I wish it would....).


Yes so do I. It's an area I have yet to venture into Fermentation pH and I have an electronic meter with a long dangly bit to drop in next to the tilt (I wish someone would invent a Bluetooth version to merge in with the Tilt results!)
I never test the pH after fermentation - what can you do about it anyway - it's too late by then? Carbonation changes it anyway doesn't it? Or am I wrong about that too?

 

[Pricelessbrewing]

Right, logically this doesn't happen in reality as it's after the mash. I just don't know where the disconnect is to troubleshoot, if it's a linking/updating issue, or if the mash pH little icon there isn't working correctly.

The only thing I could think of as far as tracking pH during/after fermentation is it could be used to indicate oxidized brett beers (producing acetic acid in the presence of oxygen), or when to blend a sour beer, or soured portion of a beer?

 

[Sunfire96]

There is no way kettle salts can affect mash pH. If the calculator is producing these results, it's producing incorrect results. The calculator doesn't predict pH at the end of the boil (I wish it would....). Kettle salts would affect that but there's no way it can affect mash pH - they're added after the mash is complete!

Hence my post to bring attention towards the error in the calculator

 

[Yooper]

I'll have to defer to @Yooper for all things chemistry related at the moment still, can you take a look at this?. I really just don't understand the mash pH indicator in the top left, and how/why it defers from the linked water calculator so often.

The linked calculator should always mash the indicator, but this happened in the past too, and I know that it was fixed at that time.

Boil additions should NEVER affect mash pH. I can add the issue to GH, if it’s not in there. It does affect the post boil pH of course, but we don’t have that ability to predict anyway. @Priceless do you think we can do it somehow as a ‘late addition’ as to not affect pH? That would be a tough one, since ‘water agents’ are designed to allow the water calc to use them to predict pH.

 

[Sunfire96]

The linked calculator should always mash the indicator, but this happened in the past too, and I know that it was fixed at that time.

Boil additions should NEVER affect mash pH. I can add the issue to GH, if it’s not in there. It does affect the post boil pH of course, but we don’t have that ability to predict anyway. @Priceless do you think we can do it somehow as a ‘late addition’ as to not affect pH? That would be a tough one, since ‘water agents’ are designed to allow the water calc to use them to predict pH.

Thanks for checking it out!