1st post. Real world question on carbonating 7 to 18bbls of beer

[Brewer #437455]

Evening folks.

Boris here. I have a real world question on using the carbonating calculator that's provided to us here on the site.

I understand it's for homebrewing and I have used this very calculator when I was homebrewing but now I've made it to the 'pro' level and our method for carbing 7 to 9.5bbls(standard output on our brewhouse) to 18/19(double batch in a 20bbl FV) can't match up with the calculator here. In other words, we don't have up to 14 days to carb a beer in the bright. We do it in 24hrs. Literally. I have come in on Saturdays and Sundays(we normally do no brew ops on those days) just to finish carbing a beer.

So my question to you fine folks is this: Is there a formula I can use to take the calculator we already have on this site and adapt it to a carb method of 24hrs instead of 10 to 14 days?

Is it math that I'm missing? I came up dividing 14/8 = 1.75. So 14 days divided by 8 psi(highest CO2/Vol for 30F beer so 2.6). If I then take 1.75 and times it by 8, I get 14 or 14 psi. So if that math is correct, I bet it isn't, but if it is then to achieve 2.6 CO2/vol on our 7 to 9.5bbl batch of beer that is already at 30F, I need to set out CO2 regulator to 14 psi?

For context. Our current SOP for carbing is by mouthfeel. I know. I know. We should have AT LEAST a Zahm but alas, our owner and former head brewers(when we first opened, about to hit 5yrs in March) didn't make that purchase. So now we collect our beer into the bright, get it to 30F-32F, hit the carb stone with 18-20 PSI over 24hrs. Then switch the gas line to beer gas mix and finish off the headspace and hook up and pull through the beer line and faucet.

Not exactly ideal but I know what overcarbed beer taste like and what undercarbed(per style) tastes like, however, I'd like to establish proper procedures until we get a Zahm. Which at that point, the Zahm will be used to verify those new procedures. If I can create the proper method, then the Zahm will work to verify it and be even more useful when we can so we're not overcarbing our beer in packaging.

I'm sorry for the long post but I had to provide the details so you all understood what I was trying to get at.

Thank you for your time.

 

[Minbari]

Do you use a high pressure setup or do you recirculate and carb inline?

It never takes me a week. I keg it, connect gas line at 40 psi for 36-48 hours, turn down and serve.

You can roll and shake while carbing in a few hours too

 

[Donoroto]

Gas pressure at a temperature is very accurate for carbonation. While I carbonate purely by applying pressure, an inline carb stone will speed the process. Just like you oxygenate prior to fermentation with an inline system (or…?), carbonate inline at a few liters per minute, then pressurize the bright to the given pressure at whatever temperature you are at.

For even faster, you can double the pressure for 8-12 hours, then regulate down another 12, then taste it.

If inline carbonation isn’t possible, it might take 48 hours or more, even at overpressure.

Your mileage may vary.

@Bigbre04 has some experience with this in a 2-bbl system, as does @The Brew Mentor

 

[Bigbre04]

Evening folks.

Boris here. I have a real world question on using the carbonating calculator that's provided to us here on the site.

I understand it's for homebrewing and I have used this very calculator when I was homebrewing but now I've made it to the 'pro' level and our method for carbing 7 to 9.5bbls(standard output on our brewhouse) to 18/19(double batch in a 20bbl FV) can't match up with the calculator here. In other words, we don't have up to 14 days to carb a beer in the bright. We do it in 24hrs. Literally. I have come in on Saturdays and Sundays(we normally do no brew ops on those days) just to finish carbing a beer.

So my question to you fine folks is this: Is there a formula I can use to take the calculator we already have on this site and adapt it to a carb method of 24hrs instead of 10 to 14 days?

Is it math that I'm missing? I came up dividing 14/8 = 1.75. So 14 days divided by 8 psi(highest CO2/Vol for 30F beer so 2.6). If I then take 1.75 and times it by 8, I get 14 or 14 psi. So if that math is correct, I bet it isn't, but if it is then to achieve 2.6 CO2/vol on our 7 to 9.5bbl batch of beer that is already at 30F, I need to set out CO2 regulator to 14 psi?

For context. Our current SOP for carbing is by mouthfeel. I know. I know. We should have AT LEAST a Zahm but alas, our owner and former head brewers(when we first opened, about to hit 5yrs in March) didn't make that purchase. So now we collect our beer into the bright, get it to 30F-32F, hit the carb stone with 18-20 PSI over 24hrs. Then switch the gas line to beer gas mix and finish off the headspace and hook up and pull through the beer line and faucet.

Not exactly ideal but I know what overcarbed beer taste like and what undercarbed(per style) tastes like, however, I'd like to establish proper procedures until we get a Zahm. Which at that point, the Zahm will be used to verify those new procedures. If I can create the proper method, then the Zahm will work to verify it and be even more useful when we can so we're not overcarbing our beer in packaging.

I'm sorry for the long post but I had to provide the details so you all understood what I was trying to get at.

Thank you for your time.

Hey so I have alot of experience in this. You can fully carb anything from my tiny 4bbl fermenter to my former 60/90/120s in about 2 or 3 hours. No need to spend that much time on it. I almost always carb and pack on the same day. Generally The whole process takes 3 or so hours for my little tanks. Shhh don't tell anyone but I also don't have a brite and don't transfer anything in my little brewhouse.

Push 30psi(sometimes i push 55psi because one of my stones is fucked)co2 to the carbstone while relieving head pressure out the qd on the blow off arm at around 15psi. Shouldn't take more then a couple hours if the beer is relatively cold. Mine rarely gets down below 40f due to poorly designed jackets.

I too use my kisser to test carb. I sample it until it starts to sparkle my tongue on first sip. Sort of hard to explain. Generally I over carb in the tank slightly knowing I will loose gas to keg filling, draft, time, and stupid bartenders not turning on the gas.

Using beer gas in the brite is a true waste. Use co2 it is cheaper from a microbulk. If you are worried about storing it, 12-14 psi(based on your temp/pressure chart) van easily be maintained while transferring it. Get a regulator or 2 to place in line. One to check the incoming co2 pressure and one to check the exiting pressure if you really feel ocd.

You will learn to that a zahm is a love/hate thing. It works until it doesn't. Then you have to call them(they are super nice) and get the parts and rebuild the thing.

Pro tip: the grease is super important. Don't wash it out with sani. Also order an extra gauge and full gasket kit with the new zahm. Throw out the stupid little black thing and just rock it. I haven't used one in >4 years, but I could hop right back on that bike tomorrow if I needed to.

Happy to help if you have specifics questions tomorrow while I'm at my computer.

 

[Bigbre04]

@Donoroto I wonder if the eu folks need to get certified todo this just like for cips?

 

[Donoroto]

@Donoroto I wonder if the eu folks need to get certified todo this just like for cips?

I do not know, but my knowledge of other businesses there tells me yes, absolutely. The EU has certifications for everything, regulations out the wazoo, and are <passionate> about the environment.