Laundering practices

Ah! Ok...just heat up the mash! Ok...no wonder it didn't click...I'm a 2 igloo tank set up...
So for you, a hotter water infusion to your mash to get it up to Temp. That would be some or all of your sparge water.
Give it a shot and see what you think
 
But don't we biabbers sort of mash out anyway? Bag with grains gets removed and wort gets heated and runs through the 72 oC pretty quickly.
Or am I seeing this wrong?

Ding! That's the point that I was forwarding...am I not in affect mashing out when the hotter sparge water makes its way through the grain while I am fly spargeing?
 
Ding! That's the point that I was forwarding...am I not in affect mashing out when the hotter sparge water makes its way through the grain while I am fly spargeing?
You are, to a point, but it's unlikely you'll get your grain bed up to the mash out temp range without a hotter infusion.
In a fly sparge setup, only the top of the grain bed will be initially exposed to the hotter water. By the time the hotter liquid gets to the bottom, your mash may have sat for another 30 minutes.
 
Starch conversion occurs up to mashout. The increased temperature speeds up the activity of the enzymes. Just before they denature from the increased temperature, amylase enzymes are at their most active. It's true that a majority of the conversion is done in the first 15-20 minutes of the mash, but at some point the contact between the convertible starches and the enzymes decreases as the conversion progresses, so the the conversion is slowed but not stopped. At mashout, most, if not all of the beta amylase is gone, but the alpha amylase is still going. It takes a few minutes at mashout temperatures for the denaturing to occur. So a mashout really can't be done in the boil per se because most starches and grains are not present. The boil will denature the enzymes, but that is only part of the picture. Raising the temperature from the sparge is kind of like a mashout, but the rinsing action dilutes the enzymes.

I see a gravity increase from the stepping up the temperature and from the mash out. It's not necessary, but if you can do it with a push of a button, why not?
 
Uh, let's see. I use a 2 Igloo cooler rig. The Mash Water includes Mash Out, water held in Grain & Evaporation. I circulate while raising Mash temperature through Steps to final level & hold for 15 to 25 minutes. My Sparge Tank is a 3 gallon Igloo. I heat that with an Immersion Coil to 170 degrees during the final Mash step. I start the drain to Kettle & pump from the 3 gallon Igloo through a Sparge Ring at the top of the Mash Tun.
I use the Sparge Water to reach pre-boil volume. So maybe my Sparge serves as my Mash Out. After the Boil, I No Chill, thanks @Trialben,.
Works for me.
 
Starch conversion occurs up to mashout. The increased temperature speeds up the activity of the enzymes. Just before they denature from the increased temperature, amylase enzymes are at their most active. It's true that a majority of the conversion is done in the first 15-20 minutes of the mash, but at some point the contact between the convertible starches and the enzymes decreases as the conversion progresses, so the the conversion is slowed but not stopped. At mashout, most, if not all of the beta amylase is gone, but the alpha amylase is still going. It takes a few minutes at mashout temperatures for the denaturing to occur. So a mashout really can't be done in the boil per se because most starches and grains are not present. The boil will denature the enzymes, but that is only part of the picture. Raising the temperature from the sparge is kind of like a mashout, but the rinsing action dilutes the enzymes.

I see a gravity increase from the stepping up the temperature and from the mash out. It's not necessary, but if you can do it with a push of a button, why not?
I believe you:)
I've left mashes go for hours sometime overnight .
When I first did this I though oh gee oh boy I'm gunna get some kick arse conversion on this batch!
These brews were with an sparge.
Now I didn't see any great gains in mash conversion or brew house.

I always think of decoction as a mysterious enzymes killing mechanism in the brew house.
Ok I'm going to withdraw sometimes half to 3/4 of mu grain bed into a pot and boil the bejesus out of it a 15 or or so minutes and use this to raise the whole mash to next mash rest.
Man I just killed half my enzymatic power.
But funny thing is decoction is sometiems purported as achieving a higher mash efficiency.:confused:

My beliefs the enzymes are in the mash liquor the starches are geletanised and liquefied in the mash process and therefore Wether or not the actual grain kernels remain in the mash liquor (after a certain point) may become irrelevant as the starches are liquefied therefore performing a mashout with or without the grains in the mash liquor to me doesn't matter.

Sorta like when you add hops to wort the hop oils become part of the wort so removing the hops may not remove the bitterness because the hop oils are in the wort being released from the hopso_O.

Anyhow I'm probably wrong on all accounts this is just my observation lol.
I love all ways of wort making and mashing.
I've tried it most ways
And yup I'll still mash out or not on brew day if I can be arsed or not is another thing.
It's a press of the button for me but these days I'm aiming a quick brew days hence all the corner cutting.
:)
 
I believe you:)
I've left mashes go for hours sometime overnight .
When I first did this I though oh gee oh boy I'm gunna get some kick arse conversion on this batch!
These brews were with an sparge.
Now I didn't see any great gains in mash conversion or brew house.

I always think of decoction as a mysterious enzymes killing mechanism in the brew house.
Ok I'm going to withdraw sometimes half to 3/4 of mu grain bed into a pot and boil the bejesus out of it a 15 or or so minutes and use this to raise the whole mash to next mash rest.
Man I just killed half my enzymatic power.
But funny thing is decoction is sometiems purported as achieving a higher mash efficiency.:confused:

My beliefs the enzymes are in the mash liquor the starches are geletanised and liquefied in the mash process and therefore Wether or not the actual grain kernels remain in the mash liquor (after a certain point) may become irrelevant as the starches are liquefied therefore performing a mashout with or without the grains in the mash liquor to me doesn't matter.

Sorta like when you add hops to wort the hop oils become part of the wort so removing the hops may not remove the bitterness because the hop oils are in the wort being released from the hopso_O.

Anyhow I'm probably wrong on all accounts this is just my observation lol.
I love all ways of wort making and mashing.
I've tried it most ways
And yup I'll still mash out or not on brew day if I can be arsed or not is another thing.
It's a press of the button for me but these days I'm aiming a quick brew days hence all the corner cutting.
:)
You do what you do, Ben. Remain true to yourself and you can’t go wrong.

I don’t think you necessarily lose much by skipping a step or two. My problem is I’m anal retentive, I have to remind myself not everyone has this problem.
 
You do what you do, Ben. Remain true to yourself and you can’t go wrong.

I don’t think you necessarily lose much by skipping a step or two. My problem is I’m anal retentive, I have to remind myself not everyone has this problem.
Aye but you frequently medal in big Hombrewing Competitions I don't lol;).

Amen make of this hobby what you will main thing is enjoying the hobby and fruits of your labour!
 
I generally mash at 152 or so for an hour, then do a double batch sparge with 185f water. Half the total sparge, stir sit for 15 minutes and repeat. I don't bother with a vourlaf, I do however strain the wort as it goes into the kettle with a hops basket.
 
Just saw this from Clawhammer
Timing with this thread discussion...
 
Just saw this from Clawhammer
Timing with this thread discussion...
Nice video. Curious though as to why he decided on a 30 minute mash at the end when clearly 40 minutes is where he hit his target gravity. o_O

But he is not taking into consideration the fermentability of the wort, which I believe increases with mash time. In other words, mash time has an effect on both the OG and FG. Maybe that difference is trivial on a 3-4% beer, but bigger beers probably benefit from 60 minutes at least. YMMV.
 
I take multiple gravity readings throughout the mash. Typically I see a slight rise in gravity even at mashout, so my experience is different. The other thing about the video is why is the first runnings so low in gravity? Must be a thin mash. Does a thin mash change anything? I dunno.

But he is not taking into consideration the fermentability of the wort, which I believe increases with mash time
Yeah there are a lot moving parts to this, but the differences in the end may only be slight. I mash at least an hour or more, it gives me time to do other things anyway.
 
I take multiple gravity readings throughout the mash. Typically I see a slight rise in gravity even at mashout, so my experience is different. The other thing about the video is why is the first runnings so low in gravity? Must be a thin mash. Does a thin mash change anything? I dunno.


Yeah there are a lot moving parts to this, but the differences in the end may only be slight. I mash at least an hour or more, it gives me time to do other things anyway.
Like enjoying the last beer from the previous batch, especially when it is around 8am:)
I watched some videos earlier this week and have been reading some discussions like these. I am toying with the idea of withholding about 1/2 or 3/4 gallon of strike water to possibly filter though the brew bag when it is draining on the next batch. I think most of my efficiency woes are in the milling, but I might play around with something else too. I usually build recipes where they would be o.k. 1/2 % of alcohol in either direction anyway. A little experiment on a 5-gallon homebrew shouldn't hurt much.
I brewed my ESB on Sunday. We shall see where the FG falls in about a week and a half.
 
FG is also a mash temperature scenario mashing in and holding for a good rest low on the saccarafication range should in theory get you a low FG due to the more fermemtable wort created by the Beta amylase.
I've seen this recently mashing in up high around 69c- 156f favouring the Alpha Amylase and producing more dextrins I'm Finishing at 1.016.

Yup @Megary 40mins seems the sweetspot in that clip.
 
Sometimes I do my batch sparge around 168-170 F, but more often that not I just wait for the water to feel warm, so like 120F lol

I wouldn't worry about sparge water that much, commercially I definitely dialed it in, but home brewing I just use hot water out of the tap.

From what I've been taught, as long as it's hot it should be fine.
 
Yeah if I feel like it it's homebrewing remember and locking in the level of saccarafication or "flavour profile " is gunna happen once the enzymes are denatured not long after hitting the GO button for boil.
Remember most of the starches have been converted 30 mins in mashing out doesn't give me any better conversion personally.

I think to mash out or not to Falls into that grey zone of brewing tradition.
Some brews I do some I don't can I taste the difference or is my beer any better or worse hmmmm I can't tell...


Yeah, I'm with you

What I always tell people is that if you try Batch Brewing Co. down here in Sydney, I KNOW they don't mash out, and you can see by their day to day efficiency and flavour.

They once did two batches, one whirlpool hop only and one dry hopped only and one was 4.7% and the other was 5.4% lol. Maybe the impact would change by scale?
 
Curious though as to why he decided on a 30 minute mash at the end when clearly 40 minutes is where he hit his target gravity. o_O

I think this may be was a spin from Brulosophy's short and shoddy approach . They actually propose that with today's highly developed grains that an hour isn't necessary, I think Denny Conn even had a 20/20 brew, 20 minutes in the mash and a 20 minute boil. I'm with you @HighVoltageMan! I'm doing other things in that hour!

Once again...beer imitates life....lotta bad answers...lotta good answer....and the right
 
I think I was driving at this same question earlier this year!

brewersfriend.com/forum/threads/sparge-temp.15369/

BTW....where's Nosy been?
 
I think this may be was a spin from Brulosophy's short and shoddy approach . They actually propose that with today's highly developed grains that an hour isn't necessary, I think Denny Conn even had a 20/20 brew, 20 minutes in the mash and a 20 minute boil. I'm with you @HighVoltageMan! I'm doing other things in that hour!

Once again...beer imitates life....lotta bad answers...lotta good answer....and the right
Brulosophy isnt the only one doing 30 min mashes I know Martin Keen from The Hombrew Challenge also mashes for 30 boils 30 he said he started doing it early on in his BJCP challange I also hear David Heath doing a 30min boil I think he still does a conventional mash.

Don't worry Ward there's been plenty of brew days where I've mashed in then gone out for a few hours or went and mowed the lawn or went for a walk around the block .
 
My thing on 30 min mashing is that recently, I'd rather overshoot my target efficiency and then later dilute for more yield

Plus, as I've already said, I'm old school and hard habits die hard!

Hit 83 brewhouse the other day on a g30!
 

Back
Top