Seriously considering selling my brews

Steve SPF said:
It's a really interesting branding exercise at this stage and I'm doing something very specific, my emphasis is localness (I know that's not a word!)
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It is indeed a word Steve. You are smarter than you think!

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Trialben said:
Interesting you talk contract brewing I was listening to the latest Expermintal Brewing Pody talking to a bloke In LA who is cutting his way into the market via Contract Brewing.
https://open.spotify.com/episode/5O...i=Qu17Mo5eSyOPGS8qo9Ap3Q&utm_source=copy-link
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To me, contract brewing can work for both parties. If you're invested as a brewer then sweating the asset makes sense so, providing there's a margin in it, you're surely better off with the tanks full and the team working.

As a retailer, it makes sense because you can fix the cost and work forwards from it.

What doesn't work for me is deceit so I wouldn't want to buy beer and pretend I made it; I want authenticity to run through everything I do. Which brings us back to being clear about what you are and where you fit in and those thoughts around business planning. I'm not much of a fan of business plans because they can be a bit disheartening to look back on as we rarely end up where we thought we would.

To me, business planning means being clear in your own mind about what you are as a business, how you are going to fit into any existing market, how you make that happen and the patience/persistence/stubborness/resilience to see it through.
 
Steve SPF said:
To me, contract brewing can work for both parties. If you're invested as a brewer then sweating the asset makes sense so, providing there's a margin in it, you're surely better off with the tanks full and the team working.

As a retailer, it makes sense because you can fix the cost and work forwards from it.

What doesn't work for me is deceit so I wouldn't want to buy beer and pretend I made it; I want authenticity to run through everything I do. Which brings us back to being clear about what you are and where you fit in and those thoughts around business planning. I'm not much of a fan of business plans because they can be a bit disheartening to look back on as we rarely end up where we thought we would.

To me, business planning means being clear in your own mind about what you are as a business, how you are going to fit into any existing market, how you make that happen and the patience/persistence/stubborness/resilience to see it through.
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Hey last Question from me Steve but what is this "bag in box " packaging option you mention?
Is it like cask wine ?
 
Trialben said:
Hey last Question from me Steve but what is this "bag in box " packaging option you mention?
Is it like cask wine ?
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Ah, the BIB. I felt like we invented the format over lockdown and then everyone else caught on. It's a bladder inside a box, the same as a wine box. We figured out how to decant cask beer into BIBs so that we could deliver them for people to drink at home. It's a really neat solution because it leaves all the sediment behind in the cask and also extends the shelf life because the beer is in a vacuum and the bladder collapses as it's dispensed so theres no air introduced.

We sourced some fittings as well so could loan people a hand pump for the full pub experience at home, we did really well with those for a while. I do fruit cider in this format now, works well.

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Steve SPF said:
Ah, the BIB. I felt like we invented the format over lockdown and then everyone else caught on. It's a bladder inside a box, the same as a wine box. We figured out how to decant cask beer into BIBs so that we could deliver them for people to drink at home. It's a really neat solution because it leaves all the sediment behind in the cask and also extends the shelf life because the beer is in a vacuum and the bladder collapses as it's dispensed so theres no air introduced.

We sourced some fittings as well so could loan people a hand pump for the full pub experience at home, we did really well with those for a while. I do fruit cider in this format now, works well.

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Oh man that's a Great Idea!
I could only Imagine it would make this Cask style beer more doable for HBers too as in no spoilage of the beer through oxidation so you don't need to drink it as quick before it spoils.
 
Exactly that, it's a really neat little format.
 
Transparent or matalized bag. Finished or gasifies beer in the bag ?
 
Ward Chillington said:
STEVE! Very cool ..CAMRA needs to do a spotlight on this....or are they that stodgy that you not drinking it in a proper pub?
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Ah, CAMRA. The organisation that I love to despise :) So far up their own backsides they can't remember what their own organisation was born for. CAMRA returned Brewdog's deposit and booted them from their festival in the early days saying their beer wasn't 'real ale' and got into a ludicrous defintion around the size of yeast particles to justify it. They also see CO2 breathers as the work of the devil, regardless of the fact that it extends the life of the beer.

I think a CAMRA comittee would have a stroke if they saw me putting cask beer into BIBs so that people who don't give a rat's ass about their archaic definition of 'real ale' could have a good pint at home.

I've written a couple of blistering pieces about CAMRA, will see if I can find one and post it :)
 
Viejos Cañones said:
How much pressure does it withstand?
For packaging do you use the same steps as for wine?
Vacuum
Nitrogen.
Vacuum.
Filling.
closing (cap)
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Cask beer isn't carbonated so pressure isn't an issue. When we put cider in them it's the same, no carbonation. With cask there can be some minor 'blowing' as the yeast can still be active but it's not really a problem. We can explain that to customers and have them understand that any pressure can be vented and it's part of the process of dealing with a 'live' product.

To be honest, the process is very basic. The bladders themselves are factory fresh and sanitised but we are dealing with cask beer which is open to atmosphere as soon as the cask is breached. For us here in the UK, the expectation for cask beer is a shelf life of 3-5 days once the cask is breached. The BIB can extend that to something like 7-10 days so we can just set the customer expectation correctly and there's no problem.

It's a manual process so literally fill the bladder, expel any air, and seal it with the fitting. There's no thought of nitrogen and vacuums.
 
I wonder how I can adapt this concept to my homebrew scale. First step is getting some suitable bags I suppose. No or almost no carbonation removes the issue of pressure 'rating'. Hmmm, gotta think on it.
 
Donoroto said:
I wonder how I can adapt this concept to my homebrew scale. First step is getting some suitable bags I suppose. No or almost no carbonation removes the issue of pressure 'rating'. Hmmm, gotta think on it.
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I'm sure Steve can point you in the right direction.
Actually I saw this from the brew dudes recently
A bit like a ferment in a bag style
 
Steve SPF said:
These are transparent bags inside cardboard outer boxes, I'll see if I can find some images, I'm sure I have some.
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The BIB system I know for wine and what I did not understand is for natural finished beer without gas.
 
Donoroto said:
I wonder how I can adapt this concept to my homebrew scale. First step is getting some suitable bags I suppose. No or almost no carbonation removes the issue of pressure 'rating'. Hmmm, gotta think on it.
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These are the connectors, Vitop connecters they're called. We had to sleeve the pipe to the pump down a bit to make them work. The BIBs themselves were easy enough to find and are easy enough to work with. The fittings into the BIB are just a push/click fit.

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Viejos Cañones said:
The BIB system I know for wine and what I did not understand is for natural finished beer without gas.
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It's very good for small brewers who want to serve customers direct, all they need for dispense is gravity but a beer engine is cheap enough and then it's the full pub experience.

This is how keykegs work as well. Beer inside a bladder and dispense gas acting on the outside of the bladder within the keg so the gas never touches the beer..
 
Ward Chillington said:
Don't be sugar coating it @Steve SPF
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Ha ha, sorry! I remember the Beer Orders in the 1980s though and CAMRA were deeply involved in that, according to their own literature they (CAMRA) "smashed the Big Six" and freed 11,000 pubs from a beer tie.

What the Beer Orders actually achieved was putting our traditional large-scale brewers out of business - the likes of Bass, Tetley etc. - and hand the brewing across to foreign brewers like Carlsberg, Heineken and Inbev, and hand the pubs themselves over to property companies like Punch for a good old fashioned asset-stripping.

The Beer Orders were a cataclysmic event in our industry and a stain on CAMRAs history yet it seems like few people understand that and as long as they get their 'Spoons vouchers even fewer care. CAMRA could be a force for good but, to my mind, choose to behave like a trade union; a campaigning body looking for a fight.

I could go on... :)
 
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