Wyeast Lager Strain 2308 questions

Discussion in 'Beginners Brewing Forum' started by cacsmret, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. cacsmret

    cacsmret Member

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    This past weekend I pitched my first lager yeast in my third all grain brewing attempt, a Sam Adams clone. Got it in my 7 gal SS Brewtech conical fermenter with a heater and wrapped in a neoprene jacket. It's out in my cold garage with the temp set at 48 degrees. So far I see nothing happening? I know lagering takes much more time (weeks) so just curious when I should see some action? Or when I should worry? I did break the inner yeast package and had good swelling before I pitched it into the wort.
     
  2. Minbari

    Minbari Well-Known Member

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    Last lager i did took 5 days to show any signs. Patience
     
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  3. cacsmret

    cacsmret Member

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    Cool! thx
     
  4. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    there's a warm lager thread over at home brew talk, I've been doing this for years
     
  5. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    Fermenting now
    20220301_205117.jpg
     
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  6. cacsmret

    cacsmret Member

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    3-1-22c.jpg 3-1-22b.jpg 3-1-22a.jpg my stuff and one of my favorite ways to pass the time. Visited the Monastery in 94... Gettin drunk with the Monks!
     
  7. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    mine took off is 6 hours, its all in the process
     
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  8. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    You don't mention the size of your pitch but at 48 degrees you'd need a massive starter or probably at least 4 vials of yeast for 7 gallons. Based on your description, you pitched a single package of yeast. If that's the case, it's not going to work very well and the lag time will be excruciatingly long. Cold fermentation requires a huge cell count plus proper oxygenation.
    If it's done properly, lager fermentation shouldn't take an extremely long time - 7 days should be plenty. The somewhat lengthy "lagering" has more to do with post-fermentation clearing.
     
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Last lager I did was at 15c 60f under 5psi pressure started within hours but I'd spun up a two step starter one a RWS. I'm not gloating but man that pilsner is soo clean I don't personally see why I need to ferment lower.

    If I were you I'd raise the ferm temp up a bit to encourage them yeast to start going then warm It up a degree every day until it's done.

    Either way I hope It works out for you man.

    That is one sexy fermenter :)
     
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  10. cacsmret

    cacsmret Member

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    I followed the directions on the yeast packet, and yes, I only had one packet. I cooled the wort to 65 degrees, put 5 gallons in the conical and pitched the yeast. I'm using a Brewzilla, so I had a few gallons remaining so I put that remaining wort in a corny keg and used some liquid ale yeast I had in the fridge. The corny keg is going gangbusters
     
  11. Minbari

    Minbari Well-Known Member

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    Temp and yeast type are the reasons.
    As others have said, a single packet with no starter is going to have significant lag time @ 48F.
    The I spoke of that took 5 days to really get going was 2 wyeast packets run through a 2 step starter.
    It will get going
     
  12. cacsmret

    cacsmret Member

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    Lesson learned. I'm in central Idaho and have to drive an hour to find the nearest homebrew supplies; it's just in the corner of a sporting goods store and not a lot of selection. I am getting my hops from the Yakima area and pretty pleased with that. Figured while my ambient temps are still pretty low, I'd give lagering a go. May try it again, but ale will be the majority for now
     
  13. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Look at the yeast calculator section of the BF recipe builder. It'll tell you how many packets you need or how big a starter. Do a little research into required cell count. This batch will struggle and may stall before it reaches FG. I'd bring up the temp so you have a chance of getting a beer out of it.
    Next time you attempt a lager just remember that the beer comes from 2 distinct processes - cold fermentation and cold storage. The fermentation requires special consideration but the actual lagering part couldn't be easier...just let it sit until it's clear. :)
     
  14. Donoroto

    Donoroto Well-Known Member

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    Be patient. But this will definitely test your patience. It will absolutely give you beer eventually!
     
  15. Minbari

    Minbari Well-Known Member

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    Nothing wrong with lagering, it just takes more yeast to get it going. It will still turn out, just quit poking it. :p
     
  16. cacsmret

    cacsmret Member

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    Bumped the brewtech heating mat temps up this evening after work & starting to see some action. Current wort temp at 56 degrees & starting to see bubbling in the airlock after the 2.5 hr adjustment
     
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  17. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I usually pitch big, oxygenate and ferment at 58 but I've got cooling so that it doesn't get warmer than that. Fermenting at 56 is still plenty cool. If you end up getting to FG without a stall, you'll have a decent beer.
     
  18. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    Lag times on lagers are typical 30-32 hours at the longest. As mentioned above by JA that pitch rates are critical. By doing what Ben does, pitching and fermenting at higher temperatures, you can get by with less yeast (it's also under pressure). Lower temperatures require more yeast. Depending on yeast strains, temperature and pitch rate, the lag can be as short as 12 hours and as long as 30 hours. Anything above 30 hours makes me nervous.

    I would suggest in the future to use dry yeast, specifically 34/70. Pitching warm (62F) you can use 1-2 packets, pitch cold (48F) 2-3 packets. More yeast isn't going to hurt anything and it will provide some insurance. The other advantage of dry yeast is the need for oxygen is pretty much eliminated. As JA mentioned, lagers require a lot of oxygen at pitch when using a liquid yeast, more than ales and even more when under-pitched as in your situation. The reasons for this are a little complicated, but as long as you know this rules, you should be fine.

    Edit: 34/70 typically has a longer lag time in my experience, closer to 24-30 hours, even with a massive pitch. So don't panic if you don't get 12 hours out of it. WLP833 is a shorter lag time, 12-18 hours, but it's liquid and requires 12-15ppm of oxygen at pitch.
     
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