World domination.. Or first time fiddling with water chemistry.

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by EVMA, Feb 2, 2018.

  1. Credible Sauce

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    Hi helpful people.

    I am, as the title implies, planning on entering my underground lab, donning my white coat, safety specs and a set of highly accurate scales.... Or adding some salts and acid to water depending on your propensity for drama.

    I have been using the incredibly detailed mash water chemistry calculator thing. Not for the faint hearted !!

    For my next brew

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/600639/wop-wops-ipa

    I was planning on these additions.

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=X4VJSZX

    I know its not perfect but without adding RO water which is not readily available in Nottingham UK and the fact that I heat 120l in hlt it's the most in-depth I'm ready for.

    Any thoughts, as always your assistance is greatly appreciated.
     
  2. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    The hops look interesting. The total hardness is 111ppm (alkalinity) which is a little high, but if that's what you got to work with then run with it. Normally, I don't use table salt in PA/IPA's, but that amount will just add to the chloride to the chloride/sulfate ratio and that looks good. I'm curious about the hops. The hops look like they are nice and fruity, please let us know how the beer turns out.
     
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  3. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    That's a big bastard batch of beer. I've never heard of those hops so I'll be very curious how it turns out.
     
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  4. Credible Sauce

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    That's about as small as I can brew due to size of mash tun.I have a lot of help drinking it though. Everyone seems to appreciate a free beer !!

    Thanks for the advice. I will be sure to let sure to let you know how it works out. Brewing next weekend so a way off yet. Conditioning of my hybrid wheat beer starts today to that gives me something to focus on.
     
  5. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough. Damned big mash tun. I'm guessing it's not a Coleman cooler.
     
  6. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Look at his profile pic! Nice furniture dude oh wait is that your mash tun over there:).
     
  7. Credible Sauce

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    Yep the one on the far right. Somehow I managed to get this all in the house without the Mrs leaving. Good job she likes beer.!!!
     
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  8. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Fancy, I don't come close.
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I hide my plastic carboys and buckets in shame.... But there are a few brewing bits I display proudly.
     
  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yeah my missus wants me to build a bug bar around my brew equipment to hide from guests when they come round.
    She says it looks ugly:confused:.

    Ill enjoy building the bar though:p!
     
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  11. Credible Sauce

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    Its massive overkill on my part. I got the option to buy that stuff at a stupidly good price. I figured that I could move it on eBay if I didn't enjoy it. Turns out I do ! Sold all my golf stuff to raise the cash. Golf is a depressing game unless your good at it. I'm not. Even a poor beer is still a beer !!! Also by not buying beer I will break even in the year 2032 !
     
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  12. vthokiedsp

    vthokiedsp Member

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    Highvoltageman mentions the chloride/sulfate ratio. Nail that ratio and your mash/sparge ph and you'll get better beers. there have been some experiments on the perceived effects of those water characteristics with varied results but to me, the improvements in my beers were noticeable. Rules of thumb below. I stick to these and have been happy.

    Cl/sulfate ratios for hoppy beers - 0.0 to 0.5 for IPAs, and 0.5-0.75 for pales.
    Cl/sulfate ratios for malty beers - 1.25 to 1.5 for browns, and 1.5-2.0 for porters/stouts.
     
  13. Credible Sauce

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    So... the ratio when I look at the mash water and brewing chemistry calc is expressed as S04 to Cl., Its currently at 1.1 what would that be for your IPA 0.0 to 0.5. Sorry if thats a stupid question but I'm confused.

    Cheers
    Matt
     
  14. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    #14 HighVoltageMan!, Feb 5, 2018
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
    Sulfate to chloride ratios for IPA/PA should be anywhere from 1.5:1 to 2:1. So if you add 4 grams of calcium sulfate you need 2 grams of calcium chloride to have a ratio of 2:1. The sulfate drys the beer out and the accentuates hops. If you brew a Helles or another malty beer, then the ratio should be more like 1:1 to 1:2. The chloride makes the malt stand out and rounds out the bitterness or so the theory goes. I found that the sulfate does make the hops stand out. Table salt in small amounts (2-4 grams per 5 gallons) can boast the malt flavor and round out the beer, but should be used sparingly.
     
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  15. vthokiedsp

    vthokiedsp Member

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    not sure what water calculation spreadsheet you're working with but after you enter in your projected adjustments to meet your desired pH, take the Cl ions and divide by the sulfates to get a ratio that matches up with the rules of thumb i mention before. or if you don't feel like doing that...here is a rule of thumb for sulfate/chloride (inverse of the other). when researching, i noticed that some people use cl/sulfate while others use sulfate/cl. whatever. i just stuck with cl/sulfate for some reason. same concept.
    • 0.4-0.6: Very Malty
    • 0.6-0.8: Malty
    • 0.8-1.5: Balanced
    • 1.5-2.0: Slightly Bitter
    • 2-4: Bitter
    • 4-9: Very bitter
     
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  16. Credible Sauce

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    I see, thank you for the explanation.

    Thanks HighVoltageMan too !!
     
  17. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Just a small aside: The numbers given above are minor tweaks around the edges of your beer's outcome. And they're most obvious in very light, delicately flavored beer. The sulfate/chloride ratio is pretty much the difference between a North German Export and a Helles but once you get into more "flavorful" brews, it doesn't make that much of a difference. You're right about the water calculator, it's not for the faint of heart but keep this in mind, as long as you dechlorinate, there are many factors that have a much greater influence on your beer's outcome than the water. Think of brewing salts as seasonings when cooking. There are times you want a lot of salt, times a pinch will do. With salts you're enhancing flavors, not creating them. And if you really want to know what they do, bench test. Take a very light beer, mix up a solution of whatever salt you want to try, even blending if you want to test what ratios will do, add a bit of the solution and see what it does to the flavor. That's what it will do if you add the salts before the mash, during the mash, during the boil or at bottling. Sometimes nothing beats bench testing to determine the outcome of a change.
     
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