Vern's Dunkel

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Aksarben, Nov 10, 2017.

  1. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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  2. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I can't tell but you can. In your recipie when you select that check box drop down tab it'll show you if your wishing that beer style catagory guidelines bitterness colour alcohol content ect ect. Go back in and check for the brown marks and adjust things.

    Yet again that green check mark don't mean everything.
     
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  3. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    Here’s why. This is what trialben suggested for you. I just copied your recipe for this purpose.
     

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  4. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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    Thanks for the "links". It appears what I have done is made it a bit too dark and with a bit too much ABV.
    I was looking at a picture here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunkel at the top right of that page and it looked like it was a nice dark beer..
    I would still like it to be fairly dark, low in bitterness, and if I could knock down the EtOH a bit that would be nice too. I don't look for higher gravity beers, and prefer them 6% and lower to 4%.
     
  5. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Rather than guessing about ingredients and percentages, you'd be well served to research proven recipes and also read up on BJCP style guidelines. A simple google of "award winning XXXXbeer recipes" will yield links to lots of good options. You'll notice that there are variations and you don't necessarily have to copy one, but you'll get a sense of the way they're put together. Also, it's invaluable to read up on the BJCP guidelines for a particular style. When it says, for instance, that flavor and aroma of a beer should have low to moderate ester notes or low roasted malt flavor or caramal malt or toasty, crackery notes , it gives a sense of the balance you're trying to achieve. From there you can look into certain malts to see what they contribute.
    Starting from a more informed place will make a better beer for you, even the first time out.
    Here are a couple of links that I use a lot:
    https://www.bjcp.org/docs/2015_Guidelines_Beer.pdf
    http://www.homebrewtalk.com/wiki/index.php/Malts_Chart

    PS...Melanoidin malt can be completely overpowering in the flavor and finish of a beer, even a big dark one. Less than 5% will make it's presence known very handily in a Dunkel and as little as 2 percent is plenty for lighter lagers.
    PPS...you'd probably do well to reverse the percentages of light Munich and dark Munich for this recipe. And then adjust the Chocolate malt as far down as possible to achieve some color without having a big impact on flavor... a hint of smooth chocolate is nice, but any harsh roasted flavor will get in the way of the carmel/toffee malty notes.
     
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  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    It's too dark. SRM of 42 is black, a dunkel is transparent and dark.
     
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  7. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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    I got the idea for this Dunkel from a book I have, "Brewing Classic Styles" by Jamil Zainasheff and John J. Palmer. pg 76. Pg 78 gives the all grain option of 12.2 lbs of Munich malt. Mash at 154 F. The recipe was for 7 gallons Pre-Boil color 19 SRM, with Steeping grains of Carafa Special II (430L) of 6.0 oz (4.2%) Malt was Munich LME (9L) of 95.8% (which was 8.5 lbs / 7 gallons). Hallertau 4.0% 60 1.2 oz 60 minute boil and then 0.5 oz at 20 minute boil at the end. This is the recipe in the book. On page 76 he wrote, " The question many all-grain brewers have is, what color Munich malt? I have heard some brewers report good results using dark Munich malt, around 20 L. .... I prefer Munich malt in the 8 to 12 L range which gives p;plenty of Melanoidin-rich character but not so much that it becomes overwhelming." The Munich dark malt I bought last night is by (Avangard Malz) with a rating of 15L. I figured that might be pretty good to use, and if I made it like it was listed it may be closer. I was just trying to add just a touch more color than having it come out looking dark red, and more like the Dunkel I saw a picture of, and also make it a bit more "mine" rather than like all hundreds of others. :) [​IMG]
     
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  8. Ozarks Mountain Brew

    Staff Member

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    My go to Munich is Belgian 9L, but I if you like dark beers I'm betting you like it, I think half the melanoid would be fine for me, it might need some aging time too to really meld the flavors together
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    My take: Munich malt should be a combination. The grist for a traditional dunkel is light Munich, which can convert itself, and some color malt, Carafa is a good choice, plus some acidulated malt in case pH adjustment is needed. My best Dunkel so far is this one:

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/515806/mamacita-s-mexican-dunkel

    It was a first try and it turned out very good! Next version will use maybe 15% corn, the lost extract provided by the American Pilsner malt. I'll bitter it with Magnum but keep the flavor hops, maybe a slight increase. I don't think it matters which lager yeast you use, since there hasn't been enough time for a lot of divergence in strains since they were introduced. I like the Mexican Lager - great fermentation and clean results - I'll use it for my next try at a Vienna Lager, which it likely came from....
     
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  10. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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    I edited the ingredients now that I know a bit about the color being between 14-28 SRM, and IBU 18-28 which was middle of the road all the time. New "improved" :) recipe here: https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/564027/vern-s-dunkel

    I have set the "efficiency" at 60% (brew house) but if I change those % it affects the alcohol. How does one adjust efficiency to be in the range one should normally expect?
     
  11. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    So you have the book Classic Styles? Honestly, that's where I'd start. All the recipes in there are proven. Brew Jamil's recipe once and get a feel for it and make adjustments from there. Se
    I love the book and brew from it often.
     
  12. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Your efficiency is determined by how efficient your brew system is. Youll find out after a few brew sessions.
     
  13. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Do you know your efficiency range? If not, set it at 70%, that's a good starting point, adjust as you know your process better.

    Just an observation: 9 ounces of Melanoidin is going to give you a malt bomb of a beer, especially used in conjunction with that much Munich. If it were mine, I'd let the Munich speak for itself and leave the Melanoidin out. But as I tell everyone, if you're brewing the beer you like to drink, you're doing it right.
     
  14. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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    I LOVE malt! When I have a chocolate malted milk at night for desert I start with chocolate milk, add 2-3 tsp of Nestles chocolate to it and then 2 heaping tsp of Malted Milk and love to eat the malt that doesn't disolve and floats to the top. ;) I've never been a big beer fan since what I had was mostly Bud, Coors (from Nebraska) and the like and it was thin and lacking what I would consider a malt forward beer. I tasted the Melanoidin and thought WOW I'd like to make the whole thing into beer!
    I want it to taste like liquid bread that has that toasty crust on top.
     
  15. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Brew it then tweek from there then :). Itll be beer better yet brew a super malty barley wine! Thatll take that kind of melanoidin addition.
     
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  16. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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    Brewing tonight!! Took my recipe and added about 3.4 gallons of hot water to the mash tun I made out of a 5 gallon vertical cooler. Got the temp up to 160 and added ALL the malts and adjuvants. I let them steep for 60 minutes and tested with iodine and a blue cast. Took out about 2/3 gallon and brought to boil and added back into the main mash and waited another 15 or so minutes. Still blue, but temp was right at 151 F. Left it for another 20 minutes and tested and iodine came out clear. Kind of reminds me of my Total SO2 test i do at the winery (using iodine as an indicator and finish up with Sodium Thiosulfate for the end point. Anyway, I drained off the sweet wort into the boiling kettle on the floor and sparged it a few times with fresh water at about 140-160 F. Kept getting more wort and tested it and at the beginning it was 1.083 and after multiple water sparging I got it down to 1.053, and about 3.75 gallons. I was shooting for 3.5 gallons. Not sure how to measure efficiency Color looks really nice and very dark amber but not black. I have pics.

    Now it's 1:07 AM and boiling on the stove. Wish my gas stove burners were a bit hotter!! Waiting for boiling so I can add the Hallertau hops.
     
  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Extraction efficiency is total brew water used and preboil gravity .

    How's it tasting malty?
     
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  18. Aksarben

    Aksarben Member

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    I used 3.5 gallons of water in the mash tun. Then added probably another 1 gallon in water to rinse out the grist. When it got all done I was at 1.050. At first, before adding any more water, what ran out was 1.083. After getting all I wanted to get out of the mash, I checked the level at 3.5 gallons and after all done, the OG is now 1.053.

    Smells great! tastes like it has some nice malt back bone and just the right amount of bitterness and hop aromas.
    just about done with the SS coil water cooler.
     
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  19. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Simply edit your recipe to reflect your actual pre-boil volume (Est. Boil Size) and your post boil volume (Batch Size) and then adjust your efficiency number up or down to reflect the actual gravity reading that you got from the boiled wort.
    I'm confused by your description(s), but if your volume after boiling is 3.5 gallons and your gravity is 1.053, then your efficiency has to be 73%. That's assuming that you're using kettle efficiency and not brewhouse efficiency...only difference there is that brewhouse takes into account the losses between the kettle and the fermenter. A lot of us pour the entire boil into the fermenter and don't leave or lose any wort so that the efficiencies are essentially the same.
     
  20. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    You can use the Brew Log tab while you're brewing and plug in your numbers as you go. It will calculate and give you your efficiency's through each step of the brew process.
     

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