Tough Brew Day!

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Blackmuse, Jul 4, 2022.

  1. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Boy did I have a rough one! I brewed this morning but it did not go anywhere close to planned... Haven't had one of these days in a while! Long story short - I fell 12 points shy of my target OG - 1.036 instead of 1.048. less than 65% efficiency versus my usual 75-80%! There are only two things I can think of:

    1. I messed up milling and missed a pound or two of grain! (Very unlikely)
    OR
    2. First time with Floor malted Boheimian Pilsner malt... I mishandled it somehow? - I did a 126 protein rest and a slow rise to 152 or infusion mash....

    Here's the recipe... https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/1289685/american-wheat

    My guess is number 2... But how should I fix it? My supplier accidently got me this style malt vs my usual, more modified malt.. So I'm stuck with it for quite some time,,,
     
    Sunfire96 likes this.
  2. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,045
    Likes Received:
    8,888
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    RVA
    Time to learn how to do decoction mashes? Sorry about the rough brew day
     
    Blackmuse likes this.
  3. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    No kidding! I started with a protein rest and a slow rise to 152 - what I thought would hopefully be enough! But I guess not. The mash itself was probably 80 to 90 minutes. - I'm not mad anymore - just a bit puzzled. If the overall consensus is use a decoction for the floor malted bohemian then so be it - I'd love to... but I'm still wondering if that was it. I meas. I guess it is as that is the only real change to what I normally do.

    In the end I added 2 lbs of blueberry honey to bump the gravity up to 1.040. (10 gallon batch). one half was pitched on a 34/70 yeast cake and the other was fed Koln yeast. We'll see what happens. I know it'll at least make beer :)

    And to think I was worried about the hops! LOL Least of my problems! LOL
     
  4. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    12,753
    Likes Received:
    17,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Yeah I'd stick with the hochkurz protine then two step mash schedule before committing to decoction.

    Not a measurement error?
    That's a crazy hit to efficiency.
    Or your milling was out of wack and you didn't get a good consistent crush.
     
    Zambezi Special and Megary like this.
  5. Herm_brews

    Herm_brews Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2019
    Messages:
    2,613
    Likes Received:
    8,261
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Window glass and screen tech
    Wonder if your milling didn’t open up enough of the wheat malt? Did you take a good look at your grains after mashing? I found that my last wheat beer wasn’t milled to my usual specs, and my OG came out much lower than expected. From what I have read, wheat kernels are much harder than barley, thus harder to crack during milling.
     
    Trialben and Zambezi Special like this.
  6. BarbarianBrewer

    BarbarianBrewer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    Messages:
    1,430
    Likes Received:
    2,889
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Milwaukee, WI
    Is the kernel size Floor Malted Bohemian Pilsner smaller than your normal malt? If so, could that have lead to a poor crush and therefore lower extraction?
     
    Trialben likes this.
  7. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    I should double check but I remember mashing in and thinking that the crush looked good. This is certainly something I can check though! It might make more sense than the need for a decoction - all the reading I've been doing does not lean towards the need for a decoction... I'll have to start experimenting!
     
    Zambezi Special likes this.
  8. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    The crush looked good to me but I could be wrong... I guess I'll have to brew this recipe a couple more times - once paying attention to the crush, another with a longer mash, and one with a decoction! lol
     
    Herm_brews likes this.
  9. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    3,260
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Chief Brewer and Bottle Washer
    Location:
    South Central Pennsylvania
    What's the paperwork on the new stuff look like? The sugar is going to be in the corn (barley corn that is) in the growth not the kilning...kilning is where flavors are derived. If you did a one for one substitute in the grain bill and the floor malted has less sugar in it, you'd be points shy.

    Good save with the honey ! Is that fresh stuff? I'd think you're getting berries about now up tharrrre
     
  10. Sandy Feet

    Sandy Feet Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2022
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    18
     
  11. Sandy Feet

    Sandy Feet Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2022
    Messages:
    66
    Likes Received:
    83
    Trophy Points:
    18
    Yikes! I don't mill my own grains. When I have had different brew shops do it, there have been some drastic differences in OG. How to save it? If you haven't pitched yeast, I might try making that recipe a Saison and pitch some very high attenuating French Saison yeast. That crap ferments down to nothing and might give you a bit more alcohol. With an OG that low, you are going to need it.
     
  12. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Honey was from last year... Blueberry picking starts this month though! We have a good bit of wild low shrub in the yard and even a couple wild tall bushes! I planted three high shrubs 2 years ago and they are finally looking decent. Next year I think they'll yield a good bit.

    We go picking at a local farm though :) One of our favorite things to do!

    As for reading the spec sheet from weyermann.... I'm pretty lost. lol The info they have on it doesn't match (completely) with the reading of done on the subject...
     
    Sunfire96 likes this.
  13. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    I bumped it to 1.040 with some honey. I should hit right around 4% abv. Which is fine. I would actually like a light summer crusher as everything I've brewed lately has been in the 5.5-6.5 range.
     
  14. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    3,260
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Chief Brewer and Bottle Washer
    Location:
    South Central Pennsylvania
    Maybe you could do your own points per pound (PPG) test and adjust the recipe for the new grain? GIven that you have what sounds like a sizeable quantity on hand, it may be worth the time and pound of grain. I think it was a short article on the Brewdudes site where I read about it .. I'm sure there is more out there on the subject.
     
    Donoroto likes this.
  15. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    12,753
    Likes Received:
    17,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    The malt spec sheet from the maltster will help determine extract potential for you;).
     
  16. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    @Ward Chillington and @Trialben - Funny. For this particular grain I actually added it to my Inventory and used Weyermann's Analysis sheet to punch in my numbers. I had hoped that this would help in terms of accuracy for my recipes. I'll attach the Analysis sheet so you can see what I used. I had calculated PPG to be 36.2/36.3 for this malt and that is what I entered into the Brewer'sFriend Software... Maybe I jacked that up? I appreciate all the feedback - while it was a tough brewday I actually like having a slight conundrum to ponder and hopefully solve.

    I will go back into my recipe and make sure the malt I added to recipe was taken straight from my Inventory. I did notice last night that because I had had 3-4 batches in a row with higher than expected efficiency I had used 80% as my efficiency for this batch. If I dropped it back to 75% then I was only 10 points or so off from my usual mark.

    - I apparently have some fine tuning to do to my system/process! That's what I get for taking such a long hiatus from brewing! lol

    Floor-Malted Pilsner Analysis Sheet.png
     
  17. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 19, 2020
    Messages:
    3,045
    Likes Received:
    8,888
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    RVA
    It seems there's some info missing there; the course grind extract and the S/T ratio. My understanding is those 2 values help determine how well modified the malt is and if a step mash or infusion mash is needed. My reference is a BYO article on reading grain sheet specifications

    https://byo.com/article/reading-the-malt-specs/

    And some screenshots if you're not a BYO member
    Screenshot_20220705-091311_Chrome.jpg Screenshot_20220705-091325_Chrome.jpg
     
    Trialben likes this.
  18. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    12,753
    Likes Received:
    17,022
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Regardless it looks as though this floor malted barley malt has a similar extract potential to any other base grain so you can rule that out as to the cause of you low efficiency.

    I'm leaning toward combination of crush and step mash seeing as it's floor malted and therefore slower to convert even though you malt sheet has saccarafication time of 15min lol.
     
  19. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2018
    Messages:
    1,894
    Likes Received:
    3,260
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Chief Brewer and Bottle Washer
    Location:
    South Central Pennsylvania
    yeah...I get that! I F'ed up a batch of blonde a couple years ago...never figured it out....Lotta theory...no conclusion! Now I use it for lawn fertilizer....still tastes like a dish rag!
     
  20. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    1,159
    Likes Received:
    1,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Exactly! I do have a BYO membership and have read this and other articles. The malt sheet just doesn't quite match up to what I am reading... but I have managed to derive SOME info from it. Like what @Trialben mentioned - extract potential seems on par with other base malts. I think I will have to do a bit of experimenting to see if I figure out what went wrong. I used all the wheat malt I had so maybe a mini-mash to see what sort of extract I get from the pilsner malt by itself under similar conditions...

    I did mill the wheat with the pilsner malt so maybe that somehow affected how crushed the wheat was comparatively and in turn I didn't extract much from that grain... ?
     
    Herm_brews, Josh Hughes and Sunfire96 like this.

Share This Page

arrow_white