The Narrows - Winter Ale

Craigerrr

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THis is a recipe from one of my LHBS's, it is their BOTM, $25 for all ingredients except the white chocolate, vanilla extract, molasses, and the water agents. Not sure if I selected the correct Crystal malts in the recipe builder or not.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/742194/the-narrows

LHBS Grain Bill
Grains Amount (lbs)
Maris Otter 7.5
Vienna 1
Munich Type 1 1
Crystal Light 0.8
Crystal Medium 0.5
Crystal Dark 0.4
Chocolate Malt 0.2
Carafoam 0.3
Molasses 4oz

Does this look like a solid recipe?
TIA,
Craigerrrrr
 
Holly moley you've got some malts crammed in there lol! You can prob drop half them crystals and still get same results but obviously a tried and tested recipe. It looks thick and malty to me.
 
I think the carafoam may be redundant but otherwise it looks solid. The percentage of C-malts in relation to base malt is reasonable for style and the different levels of Crystal malts will contribute complex flavors.
 
THis is a recipe from one of my LHBS's, it is their BOTM, $25 for all ingredients except the white chocolate, vanilla extract, molasses, and the water agents. Not sure if I selected the correct Crystal malts in the recipe builder or not.
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/742194/the-narrows

LHBS Grain Bill
Grains Amount (lbs)
Maris Otter 7.5
Vienna 1
Munich Type 1 1
Crystal Light 0.8
Crystal Medium 0.5
Crystal Dark 0.4
Chocolate Malt 0.2
Carafoam 0.3
Molasses 4oz

Does this look like a solid recipe?
TIA,
Craigerrrrr
I think you might be taking the notion of "complexity" a bit too far. You're taking the "bread" flavors of the base malt, Vienna and Munich and adding honey, caramel, burnt sugar and black coffee (the crystals and chocolate), then throwing molasses in on top? I believe this might be just a bit too complex, not to mention a bit syrupy (unless you balance with a lot of hops). Maybe if you could tell us what you're trying to achieve?
 
Thank you Trialben, JA, and Nosybear.
The goal is a Winter Ale.
This isn't my recipe, it is from the LHBS. I am getting pretty good at making beer, but I don't know what makes a good recipe good, hence the request for input.
Part of the interest in this recipe is the low cost, but I don't want to brew a beer that tastes low cost.
If the best advice is to look for a new recipe, and ask for further input, that works too. Part of the plan here is for a buddy to brew the same recipe, and then compare the results.
 
I think you might be taking the notion of "complexity" a bit too far. You're taking the "bread" flavors of the base malt, Vienna and Munich and adding honey, caramel, burnt sugar and black coffee (the crystals and chocolate), then throwing molasses in on top?
A lot of beers are much better off with just a few ingredients to really hammer a particular note in the flavor, but something should be complex and subtle with a lot of notes to mull over. Seems like a winter ale is the perfect beer for that :)
What would you change? I could see using a 45L candisugar instead of molasses for some toffee/carmel to reinforce the middle of the flavor range but the molasses might add a hint of "fruitcake" and perception of slightly bitter tinge to help the finish. One way or another, I think the extra sugar will help dry it out and provide a little extra attenuation for relatively strong alcohol notes to offset the heavy malt sweetness that could threaten to take over, though there's not a lot of it in the recipe anyway.
Do you think a lower mash temp would lend more fermentable maltose to further dry it out and let the crystal malt do the work of adding body? That's what I tend to do when I have a recipe with a relatively high C-malt content.
 
I'm not a complex beer guy, hence my recommendation that he brew it and tell me how far off I was in my assessment.... ;-). I'd definitely drop the white chocolate, it's nothing but sweetened cocoa butter. Extra sugar is the first place my brewer brain went with this. All that crystal is going to make a very chewy beer. I'd be looking into plain sugars to help dry things out unless the plan is to drink it out of cordial glasses. You're right about Carafoam being unnecessary in this, there's so much crystal body and foam shouldn't be a problem.... Molasses is good if kept below the flavor threshold, it gets nasty pretty quickly above it (mine's about 3 oz in 6 gallons of beer).

I think of recipes normally as to what should I put in and if I can't articulate the reason to myself in terms of flavor or effect, I don't put it in. So my approach leads to simpler recipes. Brew it, Craigerr, and see!
 
The input is much appreciated, made a few adjustments based on the advice provided.
Maybe my buddy (and he is as cheap as the day is long) will brew the LHBS recipe, and I will brew the modified recipe. Instead of an experiment, it will be a competition!
Thanks guys!
 
That’s like a lb of crystal. No problem; Deschutes Jubleale is more like 1.5 lbs of crystal on 5 gal. It’s a winter ale... I’m not a big fan of Vienna and would replace with 2 row. Not sure what to think about the molasses. Respectfully GW. :)
 
I can't articulate the reason to myself in terms of flavor or effect, I don't put it in.
Can't argue with that logic at all! ;)
In this case I think the ingredients work for the reasons you noted earlier - the combination of C-malts gives 3 distinct flavors, honey, caramel, raisin. Because that layering of flavors will ideally come through in the beer, that's the reason I'd support using them. I actually didn't register the white chocolate...you're definitely right about that - no reason for it.
Craigerrr, if it was me, I'd get a little bolder with the candisugar and up it to 8 ounces. It's not going to hurt the flavor and should be good for combating the potential downfalls that Nosy is warning against - beer that's too thick or chewy. Also, there's really no reason for 3 different hops. I'd stick with Willamette all the way and let the malt steal the show. Keep the IBUs up so that the balance is there and the earthy/floral/spice of the Willamette will provide a good base for the hop contribution.
Brew on! :)
 
The input is much appreciated, made a few adjustments based on the advice provided.
Maybe my buddy (and he is as cheap as the day is long) will brew the LHBS recipe, and I will brew the modified recipe. Instead of an experiment, it will be a competition!
Thanks guys!

My take on it is if they sell it as a kit it must be a tried and true recipe. Brew it as is or you will never know if you like the kit. You brew an adjusted beer and your bud brew same as is a good idea. I posted a RIS brewed by a homebrewer recipe. Scotts Thors Thunder calls for 333 IBU! Completely out of reason but it is a standout stout. You never know unless you try it. Exbeeriment is a good thing.
 
My take on it is if they sell it as a kit it must be a tried and true recipe. Brew it as is or you will never know if you like the kit. You brew an adjusted beer and your bud brew same as is a good idea. I posted a RIS brewed by a homebrewer recipe. Scotts Thors Thunder calls for 333 IBU! Completely out of reason but it is a standout stout. You never know unless you try it. Exbeeriment is a good thing.
Can't argue with that.
 
Seems like a decent beer... It's going to be big and thick though. Maybe mash low to counteract. Unless you want that. Molasses is only about 50% fermentable, so adding that to the crystal malt will leave a thick body to it. But a winter warmer style usually is full bodied. Personally I'd leave out white chocolate. The oils and fats in it won't do the head retention any favors and I'm not sure how well the flavor will show through.
 
I’m not a big fan of Vienna and would replace with 2 row. Not sure what to think about the molasses. Respectfully GW. :)
Have never brewed with Vienna, respectfully, going to leave it in. The molasses is out in favor of the candi sugar, and will up the amount as suggested.
 
Seems like a decent beer... It's going to be big and thick though. Maybe mash low to counteract. Unless you want that. Molasses is only about 50% fermentable, so adding that to the crystal malt will leave a thick body to it. But a winter warmer style usually is full bodied. Personally I'd leave out white chocolate. The oils and fats in it won't do the head retention any favors and I'm not sure how well the flavor will show through.
The white chocolate, and the molasses are both out, thanks for your thoughts.
 
My take on it is if they sell it as a kit it must be a tried and true recipe. Brew it as is or you will never know if you like the kit. You brew an adjusted beer and your bud brew same as is a good idea. Exbeeriment is a good thing.
This is very true, but I am not 100% confident in the original recipe from the LHBS, he is a good guy, but I have not been thrilled with his recipes in the past (although I must say it has been a while and my skill, equipment, and process have improved considerably since I last brewed one of his recipes). I have also found the help and advice on recipes from the good folks here has always been spot on.
 
Can't argue with that logic at all! ;)
In this case I think the ingredients work for the reasons you noted earlier - the combination of C-malts gives 3 distinct flavors, honey, caramel, raisin. Because that layering of flavors will ideally come through in the beer, that's the reason I'd support using them. I actually didn't register the white chocolate...you're definitely right about that - no reason for it.
Craigerrr, if it was me, I'd get a little bolder with the candisugar and up it to 8 ounces. It's not going to hurt the flavor and should be good for combating the potential downfalls that Nosy is warning against - beer that's too thick or chewy. Also, there's really no reason for 3 different hops. I'd stick with Willamette all the way and let the malt steal the show. Keep the IBUs up so that the balance is there and the earthy/floral/spice of the Willamette will provide a good base for the hop contribution.
Brew on! :)
Thanks JA, I will kick up the candi, and go all Willamette, makes total sense to me.
 
I'd definitely drop the white chocolate, it's nothing but sweetened cocoa butter. Extra sugar is the first place my brewer brain went with this. All that crystal is going to make a very chewy beer. I'd be looking into plain sugars to help dry things out unless the plan is to drink it out of cordial glasses. You're right about Carafoam being unnecessary in this, there's so much crystal body and foam shouldn't be a problem.... Molasses is good if kept below the flavor threshold, it gets nasty pretty quickly above it. Brew it, Craigerr, and see!
Thanks Nosy
Dropping the white chocolate, the carafoam, and the molasses. I upped the other malts slightly to make up for the carafoam, and as noted the candi will go in place of the molasses.
 
Could I also get some feedback on my water profile?
Target, London (porter, dark ale)
100 / 5 / 35 / 60 / 50
With my water agents
86 / 5 / 27 / 108 / 135
pH 5.38
 

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