Step Mash

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Nola_Brew, Oct 8, 2019.

  1. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    #1 Nola_Brew, Oct 8, 2019
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
    I'm looking to brew a small batch Munich Dunkel. It's a recipe from Craft Beer and Brewing. I looked at various other recipes and some have Melanoidin Malt and some don't.
    I want to brew without but not sure if I should do a step mash or just mash at 152 or so.
    Recipe
    92% Munich 9L
    4% Victory
    4% Carafa II

    .4 oz Warrior @ 60
    .5 oz Tettnang @ 5
    No DH
    Wyeast 2206 or WLP 833

    I've never brewed anything dark- so not sure if a step mash is needed.
    Thoughts / opinions?
    Thanks!
     
  2. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    Pretty unlikely a step mash will help, in fact could be seen as a negative. It will break down more of the proteins than a single temp mash giving you a lighter/drier beer. Though for some people/beers that may be a positive.

    For darker beers you'll find some people will hold the roasted malts back and only add to the mash near the end, or even cold steep them separately. Not something I do as I like a bit of roast flavour in many beers, but I've drunk experiments with the roast in for the full mash vs a cold steeping of the roasted malts and you can definitely tell the difference. It's generally referred to as capping if you want more info.

    Though, with the amounts you're planning I don't think it's worth the complications (but I'm biased that way).
     
  3. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    I'm leaning towards not doing a step mash.

    I honestly am not a fan of dark beers, such as porters and stouts. I've found all have this harsh taste that I do not care for, which I am certain comes from the dark malts.

    So I figured I can brew a small batch Munich Dunkel. I have tried one and it wasn't harsh. I have also read about holding back the dark malts until the end of the mash. I'm undecided if I want to do that or just go with it for the full mash. It's not a lot so I'm kinda leaning towards just going with it for the entire mash.

    This will be sort live and learn batch. Not planning on brewing this for maybe a month so i have a little time to see what process i want to go with.

    As for as mash temps, is it best to mash low or high? Not looking for high ABV so want to keep it under 6% this time.
     
  4. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 19, 2017
    Messages:
    1,303
    Likes Received:
    1,424
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Melbourne Australia
    The dark malts won't change much for the ranges you'll be using, so just use whatever temp you normally do. If you're going for lower ABV and a bit of sweetness a higher mash temp is probably better. Though if you've got your process down it probably doesn't make as much of a difference as changing your yeast or adding in a touch of crystal/caramel malt.
     
    Nola_Brew likes this.
  5. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    That much Munich is very unlikely to give a dry, thin beer. if it was me, I'd step at 148 and 158 and give plenty of time in the 148 range. Attenuation is your friend with a Dunkel...if it turns out too sweet, it's just too syrupy and you don't have hop bitterness to balance it out.
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    Short answer, no. A single infusion in this grist will make a good beer. More accurate answer: I'd step mash it: A step at 144 for about 30 mins and 156 for 40 mins. I wouldn't do a protein rest - makes mash out of today's malts and affects head stability. If I can make a suggestion on hopping, all Tettnang at 60 mins but if you want the flavor, go for it.
     
    Nola_Brew likes this.
  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I wouldn't add Crystal to a Munich Dunkel, particularly as much of the grist he has as Munich Light. I'd maybe go 60-40 Munich Light and Munich Dark (light will self-convert, dark is right on the edge). Crystal takes German beers in the wrong direction to my taste. But it's brewer's choice. One more thing: If I were to use crystal, I'd use Caramunich rather than American or English crystals.
     
  8. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Agree...The grist as it sits is fine but, yeah I'd throw in some light Munich for diastatic.
     
    Nola_Brew likes this.
  9. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    9,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    And then no risk of suspected harsh roast flavours.
     
    Nola_Brew likes this.
  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    9,442
    Likes Received:
    9,512
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    Check this out
     
  11. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    Made a couple adjustments. How does this look?

    61.5% Dark Munich
    30.8% Light Munich
    3.8% Victory
    3.8% Carafa II
    1 oz Tettnang @ 60
    .5 oz Teggnang @ 5
    Step Mash: 144-148 for 30 min / 156-158 for 40 min
    IBU 25
    SRM 21.6
    OG 1.055 / FG 1.014
    ABV 5.4%
     
  12. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    I watched that video last night. Dr Hans. Like his vids.
     
    Trialben likes this.
  13. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    Definitely do not want it to be too sweet or syrupy.
    Never did a step mash before so that will be a new process as well as brewing this style beer. Also trying to avoid the harsh flavors I get when i've tried Stouts and Porters.
     
  14. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    816
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    I make Dunkels fairly often and won a few awards with them. JA is correct to say attenuation is your friend, that's true for any German beer. I have over the years mashed lower and longer and have gotten dry but malty beers with this method. Attenuation in the high 70's% and low 80's% with lager yeast, not bad for a yeast that's spec out at 75%. Mash at 145F for 90 minutes, this allows the beta enzyme enough time to break down all the starches it can to a very fermentable wort. Yeah, the iodine test says it's done in 30 minutes, but what it doesn't tell you is that the beta can still break the sugars down to an easier fermnetable wort. The second step at 158 for 15 minutes and a mash out at 168F

    The beer is drier and better. I always step mash, but especially German beers.
     
  15. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    Thanks for the info. Appreciate it.
    So total mash time is 115 min right? which includes a 10 min mash out.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,400
    Likes Received:
    6,643
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I'd lose the Victory but that's personal preference and at the amounts you mention, it won't contribute much. Maybe replace it with Carafoam? Otherwise, looks good. Keep the temp on that first step down - helps with fermentability. You will make a winner or not with fermentation: Oxygenate well, keep the initial stages of fermentation cool, let it warm up at the end, then lager for a month or longer.
     
    Nola_Brew likes this.
  17. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2016
    Messages:
    3,476
    Likes Received:
    2,694
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    Yes, that! The iodine test just tells you that the available starches in suspension have been used up. There's still a lot to work with in the form of complex carbohydrate molecules and starchy goo that's still holding on to the grain husks.
    When you recirculate or vorlauf/lauter/sparge, the grain bed acts as a filter to trap loose particulate that holds on to starch molecules. That'll provide very clear wort that tests "done" with iodine even if there's still available enzyme and starch somewhere in the bed that might convert if given the chance.
    I usually give a stir halfway through the 148 rest and it stirs up a whole new batch of starch that the enzymes can easily access. I always see the gravity jump way up after the wort clears again. I do the same thing just before the 158 rest and it gives a chance to wring out a little more efficiency from the starches hiding in the bottom of the tun.
     
    HighVoltageMan! likes this.
  18. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2015
    Messages:
    837
    Likes Received:
    816
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Location:
    Big Lake MN
    Yup. I recirculate the entire time, but just holding it at 145F for 90 minutes helps to dry out your beer.
     
  19. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    I appreciate the info fellas. Gonna try and get this brewed up in a week or two.
     
    Trialben likes this.
  20. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2015
    Messages:
    380
    Likes Received:
    246
    Trophy Points:
    43
    Location:
    Looziana
    I have the grains for brewing the Minuch Dunkel. This will be a 3 gal batch.
    61% Munich Dark
    30.5% Munich Light
    4.8% Carafa II
    3.8% Carafoam
    1 oz Hallertau Mittelfruh @30 and 5 min
    Wyeast Bohemian Lager 2124
    OG 1.055 / FG 1.013
    IBU 23
    SRM 23.4
    100% RO Water

    Now my question is water profile
    I chose the Munich Dark profile on BF.
    Ca 82
    MG 20
    Na 4
    CI 2
    SO4 16
    HCO3 320

    I'm having trouble getting close to the Bicarbonate. I've never added chalk or baking soda. Haven't really messed around with the Bicarbonate levels.
    Please provide some direction on how to achieve the correct profile for this style.
    Thanks
     

Share This Page

arrow_white