session ale

Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

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Hey Guys! Looking for some feedback on this rough draft recipe:
https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/788954/pub
It will likely change moving forward depending on the feedback I receive

I will try to explain my goals.
1.) simple
2.) sessionable and balanced but still with noticeable hop character
3.) german tilt like most of my beers (hence the specific ingredients)

I'm specifically looking for advice on brewing lower OG recipes. I don't use a lot of specialty malts in general but would be willing if it makes sense. I'm hoping 100% munich would provide enough malt character and balance on it's own even when considering the lower OG. I don't want anything watery or unbalanced so any advice would be much appreciated.

I realize it's kind of a strange beer and doesn't fit inside any established category...
 
I've never tried a 100% Munich beer, but 2 things off the top of my head:

1. Will this beer lean too "malty" to be sessionable, especially with such a low bitterness.
2. Will you get that 78% attenuation from the yeast out of an all Munich Wort?

Following...
 
My fear is that it won't have enough body for only 8 lbs of malt without any specialty malts. That is my reasoning for the munich however that is just a hope at this point. I can easily increase the bitterness but it's just hard to know how high to go for a 1.041 beer.

78% attenuation is just what I normally experience from this yeast. I'm not really concerned about the fermentability since it will self convert however I haven't really considered that.
 
My opinion and a dollar won't even get you a cup of coffee any more, but here goes:

21 IBU is not very bitter. Maybe 14g at 45 minutes instead. Or a whole ounce of something lower AA like magnum. You will get a decent hop character from the late addition, that'll be fine.

It will be somewhat thin. This might not be bad. If you want it 'thicker' then just a little oats in the mash (cup of plain oatmeal will do) or perhaps some wheat will help. But it'll never be rich like a porter.

As a lighter-colored beer, with 100% Munich, it'll never be 'very' malty. But it'll be a whole lot better than commercial lager. You can add some Maris Otter or other flavorful grain (melanoidin?)to add flavor/maltiness, you don't need much, a pound is too much.

Low ABV brewing is no different from higher ABV, but many homebrewers notice that there isn't as much flavor: That's just physics, there's only so much flavor in the grain. Adding flavor means adding flavorful grains.

If you want malty, or if you want bitter (decide), you can move that needle with your water profile. The SO4 to Cl- ratio (sulfate to chloride) influences malty versus bitter, the recipe editor will guide you. Note that this is entirely optional, so if you don't have brewing salts, just do without and it'll be good beer.
 
Donoroto said:
My opinion and a dollar won't even get you a cup of coffee any more, but here goes:

21 IBU is not very bitter. Maybe 14g at 45 minutes instead. Or a whole ounce of something lower AA like magnum. You will get a decent hop character from the late addition, that'll be fine.

It will be somewhat thin. This might not be bad. If you want it 'thicker' then just a little oats in the mash (cup of plain oatmeal will do) or perhaps some wheat will help. But it'll never be rich like a porter.

As a lighter-colored beer, with 100% Munich, it'll never be 'very' malty. But it'll be a whole lot better than commercial lager. You can add some Maris Otter or other flavorful grain (melanoidin?)to add flavor/maltiness, you don't need much, a pound is too much.

Low ABV brewing is no different from higher ABV, but many homebrewers notice that there isn't as much flavor: That's just physics, there's only so much flavor in the grain. Adding flavor means adding flavorful grains.

If you want malty, or if you want bitter (decide), you can move that needle with your water profile. The SO4 to Cl- ratio (sulfate to chloride) influences malty versus bitter, the recipe editor will guide you. Note that this is entirely optional, so if you don't have brewing salts, just do without and it'll be good beer.
Click to expand...

Thanks! My experience with oats is contrary to what a lot of people use it for so I will bypass that. I will probably find another malt to add some complexity and perhaps body. I do treat my water so I will likely go with a yellow or amber balance profile depending on where the final color lands. I have done a lot of low IBU beers that feature late hops and prefer to get a lot of my bitterness from those additions. I will probably bump up the bitterness a tad.
 
I see nothing at all out of place in that recipie Illif.
I would definitely brew this grist them hops maybe not but hey that's just what I've herd about them (fake citrus thing) so hey maybe I would don't believe all the whoo har on the HB forums until you've come to your own conclusions eh;).

Yeah I like your bitterness as well I wouldn't increase it.
I think that would make a nice easy drinker.
I don't think you need anything else in the grist.
I see the Munich adding plenty of characters to that beer even without the carahell that's just gunna support that "Malty" theme a little more for you I think.

When I was reading through I thought hey increase mash temp to increase final gravity but really this beer isn't that low ABV (in my books). And it would compliment the low high mash schedule hochkurz just nicely
I routinely brew beers in that ABV range.
Good healthy yeast pitch
Good healthy carbonation for that fullness and accentuate dry crisp finish and you'll have a session beer on your hands:) .
My 2c
Looking to see where you go with this one.
Remember your first swipe at the recipe usually won't be your final iteration...
 
Trialben said:
I see nothing at all out of place in that recipie Illif.
I would definitely brew this grist them hops maybe not but hey that's just what I've herd about them (fake citrus thing) so hey maybe I would don't believe all the whoo har on the HB forums until you've come to your own conclusions eh;).

Yeah I like your bitterness as well I would increase it.
I think that would make a nice easy drinker.
I don't think you need anything else in the grist.
I see the Munich adding plenty of characters to that beer even without the carahell that's just gunna support that "Malty" theme a little more for you I think.

When I was reading through I thought hey increase mash temp to increase final gravity but really this beer isn't that low ABV (in my books)
I routinely brew beers in that ABV range.
Good healthy yeast pitch
Good healthy carbonation for that fullness and accentuate dry crisp finish and you'll have a session beer on your hands:) .
Click to expand...

Thanks! I have edited the original draft which appears you saw. Mandarina Bavaria is one of my favorite hops however I may switch it closer to the time of brew session depending on my mood.
 
Iliff Avenue Brewhouse said:
Thanks! I have edited the original draft which appears you saw. Mandarina Bavaria is one of my favorite hops however I may switch it closer to the time of brew session depending on my mood.
Click to expand...
Hey I've not used it so disregard that opinion it's just hb talk I've herd not personal experience.
If you like that hop ( and it's not outta place In that beer I don't think) then go with it
 
Megary said:
I've never tried a 100% Munich beer, but 2 things off the top of my head:

1. Will this beer lean too "malty" to be sessionable, especially with such a low bitterness.
2. Will you get that 78% attenuation from the yeast out of an all Munich Wort?

Following...
Click to expand...
I love all Munich. Sessionable to me. I get close to that attenuation wise all Munich.
 
I think I'd call that an Alt Bier.

I made a 90% munich 10% roasted barley dry stout once. It was real good. 1.040 if I recall. I was just using up some extra malt.

Ashburne mild malt might work well in a session ale. It seems like it is a strong munich malt. I have yet to try it.

IMO 90% munich malt is going to taste malty at any OG. Cara hell will at body and some sweetness. Balance is key. I've never used those hops. 25-30 IBU should be good.
 
I personally wouldn't brew a session hoppy beer with 100% Munich; that doesn't seem to jive well in my brain for some reason :) I make a lot of hoppy sessionable beers with an OG around 1.045-1.050. My favorite grist is 2 row with 5% each of pale rye, vienna, and carapils. Whirlpool and dry hop additions are helpful for hop aroma and flavor. Also if it's an all grain batch, I don't expect that it would turn out "watery." There's some things you can utilize to help, like carapils, flaked wheat, or increasing the calcium chloride for enhanced mouthfeel.

One of my favorite craft beers was a smash beer with pilsner malt and Citra. Plenty of hop flavor and sessionable, but certainly not thin.

Cheers, and good luck!
 
Sunfire96 said:
I personally wouldn't brew a session hoppy beer with 100% Munich; that doesn't seem to jive well in my brain for some reason :) I make a lot of hoppy sessionable beers with an OG around 1.045-1.050. My favorite grist is 2 row with 5% each of pale rye, vienna, and carapils. Whirlpool and dry hop additions are helpful for hop aroma and flavor. Also if it's an all grain batch, I don't expect that it would turn out "watery." There's some things you can utilize to help, like carapils, flaked wheat, or increasing the calcium chloride for enhanced mouthfeel.

One of my favorite craft beers was a smash beer with pilsner malt and Citra. Plenty of hop flavor and sessionable, but certainly not thin.

Cheers, and good luck!
Click to expand...
Thanks for your input! The goal is not to make a hoppy beer but a balanced beer with some late hop character (I understand that may not make sense.
 
I don’t have my heart set on 100% Munich I just thought it might work to reach my goal. How about splitting with Pilsner?
 
Iliff Avenue Brewhouse said:
I don’t have my heart set on 100% Munich I just thought it might work to reach my goal. How about splitting with Pilsner?
Click to expand...
Yup maybe I think that's a safe approach anyhow and keep the carahell for mouthfeel and hopefully foam stability.

Then on next run you can move the malt dial up or down on the Munich :)

Bloody hell I want to brew this beer now:D
I'd use Sazz or mittlefuruh personally sticking with Nobel veriety
 
Trialben said:
Yup maybe I think that's a safe approach anyhow and keep the carahell for mouthfeel and hopefully foam stability.

Then on next run you can move the malt dial up or down on the Munich :)

Bloody hell I want to brew this beer now:D
I'd use Sazz or mittlefuruh personally sticking with Nobel veriety
Click to expand...
I like your style! I do have some Mitt on hand. Just another part of the recipe that’s undecided.
 
Late to the game here, but it looks like a dirty blond to me at this point.
I'd say brew it up and make some renditions based on how it comes out.
The kolsch yeast will work well with the recipe and I'd mash low (150°) to help it dry out.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the Mandarina hop, but that's a personal choice and it should pair well with the sapphire flavor addition and the yeast.
Good luck and let us know how it goes.
Cheers
 
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