Really low sparge ph

[THops]

Hello,

I treat all of my mash and sparge water at the same time, in one big kettle, with a focus on getting the mash ph in range. I notice when I do this that the predicted sparge ph is sometimes really low, like 3.7. Is this cause for concern? I know the ideal sparge ph is below 6, but I can't find anyone who says there's a floor.

OR am I doing something wrong with the calculator?

I am working on a recipe right now that is mostly pilsner. To get my mash ph to 5.3, the calculator says I need to add 11 mls of lactic. This results in the sparge ph being 3.6.

My beers turn out fine, but I am just really curious if I a doing something wrong in the calculator. OR if maybe there's nothing to worry about with a low ph sparge. Maybe it all mixes together in the boil kettle...

 

[Ward Chillington]

Well given your beer, the conventional wisdom says you mash pH would be in the 5s...light colored beers is 5..3 to 5.5 and dark beers 5.4 to 5.6. I want to say that Jameal Zanicheif was the source for that...

What are you brewing...how are you measuring it and when are you taking it? Also...to move things towards 7 or neutral, you should be adding calcium carbonate...I think I have that right.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Hello,

I treat all of my mash and sparge water at the same time, in one big kettle, with a focus on getting the mash ph in range. I notice when I do this that the predicted sparge ph is sometimes really low, like 3.7. Is this cause for concern? I know the ideal sparge ph is below 6, but I can't find anyone who says there's a floor.

OR am I doing something wrong with the calculator?

I am working on a recipe right now that is mostly pilsner. To get my mash ph to 5.3, the calculator says I need to add 11 mls of lactic. This results in the sparge ph being 3.6.

My beers turn out fine, but I am just really curious if I a doing something wrong in the calculator. OR if maybe there's nothing to worry about with a low ph sparge. Maybe it all mixes together in the boil kettle...

Apparently high PH sparge water can extract tannins from the grains also if your sparge run off liquor drops below 1.010 you may risk extracting tannins also.

So your predicted PH from brewersfriend recommends 11ml lactic acid (% 88?) And your measured PH was 3.6ph?

I'd first make sure your Inputting your fields correctly your mash volume/ sparge volume / weather the water is blended or split. Your acid ph the mashes mineral composition the Grist your mashing these will all effect predicted mash / sparge water PH.

5.6 ph is the recommended extraction PH or gives the Amylase the best PH to do their thing in but since this is sparge water ?or your combined brew liquor you may expect lower or longer conversion rates.

Low boil PH / low Fermentation PH I'm not sure what effect this has on the end beer.
Well more tart is one like an unexpected sour beer

@HighVoltageMan! @Yooper .

 

[THops]

Well given your beer, the conventional wisdom says you mash oH would be in the 5s...light colored beers is 5..3 to 5.5 and dark beers 5.4 to 5.6. I want to say that Jameal Zanicheif was the source for that...

What are you brewing...how are you measuring it and when are you taking it? Also...to move things towards 7 or neutral, you should be adding calcium carbonate...I think I have that right.

I am talking about the water calculator, not actual measurements. It is showing predicted mash pH of 5.3. But it also shows predicted sparge pH of 3.6. Seems really low, but maybe it's not a big deal...

 

[THops]

Apparently high PH sparge water can extract tannins from the grains also if your sparge run off liquor drops below 1.010 you may risk extracting tannins also.

So your predicted PH from brewersfriend recommends 11ml lactic acid (% 88?) And your measured PH was 3.6ph?

I'd first make sure your Inputting your fields correctly your mash volume/ sparge volume / weather the water is blended or split. Your acid ph the mashes mineral composition the Grist your mashing these will all effect predicted mash / sparge water PH.

5.6 ph is the recommended extraction PH or gives the Amylase the best PH to do their thing in but since this is sparge water ?or your combined brew liquor you may expect lower or longer conversion rates.

Low boil PH / low Fermentation PH I'm not sure what effect this has on the end beer.
Well more tart is one like an unexpected sour beer

@HighVoltageMan! @Yooper .

No measurements. You know how on the water calculator where it shows your mash pH? It also shows sparge pH. My sparge pH is often predicted really low. It seems odd.

 

[GFHomebrew]

No measurements. You know how on the water calculator where it shows your mash pH? It also shows sparge pH. My sparge pH is often predicted really low. It seems odd.

Cheers hey do you blend your water or is your mash/sparge liquor separate
Their a blend no?

 

[Ward Chillington]

Yeah...reality v virtual...3.6 is low...Apple cider or wine vinegar can be as high as 3....you don't want Mr. Yuk as your label! Are you able to measure it when the time comes?

 

[GFHomebrew]

@THops
Maybe flick a screenshot up so we can help you more.

So use sepperate mash and sparge water but i adjust my mash water to the mineral content i want and acid i just add a small amout of acid to sparge water to drop my ph down from my pretty nutral 7ph

Some screen shots of how I go about it.
I'm definitely not no go to for water chem though take with a grain of salt

 

[THops]

@THops
Maybe flick a screenshot up so we can help you more.

So use sepperate mash and sparge water but i adjust my mash water to the mineral content i want and acid i just add a small amout of acid to sparge water to drop my ph down from my pretty nutral 7ph

Some screen shots of how I go about it.
I'm definitely not no go to for water chem though take with a grain of salt

So, I do not click "salts added to Mash only.". I add my salts and acid to all my water at the same time, usually 9 gallons or so. Then I drain off the sparge water into another vessel.

 

[THops]

Yeah...reality v virtual...3.6 is low...Apple cider or wine vinegar can be as high as 3....you don't want Mr. Yuk as your label! Are you able to measure it when the time comes?

Yes, I will measure next time. I always measure mash pH, but have never bothered with sparge, since I batch sparge.

Perhaps it's much ado about nothing. Just seems weird the calculator is showing such a low predicted sparge pH. It does not seem to hurt my beers.

 

[GFHomebrew]

So, I do not click "salts added to Mash only.". I add my salts and acid to all my water at the same time, usually 9 gallons or so. Then I drain off the sparge water into another vessel.

Yeah so what I do in that instance is plug in the total brew liquor into the top of the water calculator then use this then to set your acidification PH target.

This should result in 5.3 in the mash and sparge...

The blend option I saw asks for a percentage I've not used this I gather is if your using another water source like spring water distilled water ect.

 

[GFHomebrew]

So, I do not click "salts added to Mash only.". I add my salts and acid to all my water at the same time, usually 9 gallons or so. Then I drain off the sparge water into another vessel.

Or maybe I think it might be that the sparge water doesn't have the buffering capacity of your barley grist so therefore maybe this pushes the acidity lower.

Maybe since you use a ph meter on brew day just acidify you sparge water a couple of drops at a time then check with your meter.

I did this ages ago and I found a meer drop of lactic 88 smashed the ph down into the 5's.

 

[THops]

Cheers hey do you blend your water or is your mash/sparge liquor separate
Their a blend no?

Blend. I fill up my boil kettle because it has measures on it. Usually I need at least 9 gallons total. Then I add my campden tablets, salts, and acid. Then I drain off the sparge water into a separate container.

 

[THops]

Yeah so what I do in that instance is plug in the total brew liquor into the top of the water calculator then use this then to set your acidification PH target.

This should result in 5.3 in the mash and sparge...

The blend option I saw asks for a percentage I've not used this I gather is if your using another water source like spring water distilled water ect.

I don't click anything in that section... Should I?

I use tap water with a starting pH of 9.

If I hit blend it asks for water b amount, which I do not understand.

 

[THops]

Or maybe I think it might be that the sparge water doesn't have the buffering capacity of your barley grist so therefore maybe this pushes the acidity lower.

Maybe since you use a ph meter on brew day just acidify you sparge water a couple of drops at a time then check with your meter.

I did this ages ago and I found a meer drop of lactic 88 smashed the ph down into the 5's.

Well, I am acidifying 9 gallons, so it probably takes more drops. But my question is twofold, really:

1. Is the calculator correct? Is my sparge pH really 3.6.

2. If it is 3.6, does it matter?

Maybe it all blends together in the kettle? My beers turn out great, so I am mostly just trying to understand what is going on with the low sparge pH prediction from the calculator.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Well, I am acidifying 9 gallons, so it probably takes more drops. But my question is twofold, really:

1. Is the calculator correct? Is my sparge pH really 3.6.

2. If it is 3.6, does it matter?

Maybe it all blends together in the kettle? My beers turn out great, so I am mostly just trying to understand what is going on with the low sparge pH prediction from the calculator.

Yeah what I mean by the grist buffering the ph vs the sparge water.

Is the grain in the mash resists change in pH that's its buffering capacity.

The calculator will take your grist into account when calculating the predicted PH so if your sparge water doesn't have anything to resist change In PH then the acid you added will lower its PH more than the Mash because of no grist meaning a Lower PH.

Like I said I found it didn't take much acid at all to Lower my sparge water into the desired PH range.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

1. Is the calculator correct? Is my sparge pH really 3.6.

It's likely correct, but who cares. I'm assuming you are acidifying the sparge water, I do that too and I never check the pH of the water itself because it has almost no buffering capacity. It's likely to be that low.

Is the grain in the mash resists change in pH that's its buffering capacity.

Exactly. The water acid mix are really low in pH, but the mash has buffering capacity to keep the pH in a decent range.

The bottom line is that the boil pH is where you want it. I like to boil my light beers with a pH @ 5.1. That's the same pH I like to pitch at. The lower pH keeps the maillard reaction from turning the beer darker. Some say it may inhibit protein break and will keep the beer from clearing, but I think that's more theory than reality and I have never had a problem with it.

 

[THops]

Yeah what I mean by the grist buffering the ph vs the sparge water.

Is the grain in the mash resists change in pH that's its buffering capacity.

The calculator will take your grist into account when calculating the predicted PH so if your sparge water doesn't have anything to resist change In PH then the acid you added will lower its PH more than the Mash because of no grist meaning a Lower PH.

Like I said I found it didn't take much acid at all to Lower my sparge water into the desired PH range.

So +1 that the calculator may be accurate, and my sparge water pH really is that low. I will for sure test it next time, which should tell me the answer.

Since my beers turn out well, low sparge ph must not matter very much, if at all.

 

[THops]

It's likely correct, but who cares. I'm assuming you are acidifying the sparge water, I do that too and I never check the pH of the water itself because it has almost no buffering capacity. It's likely to be that low.

Exactly. The water acid mix are really low in pH, but the mash has buffering capacity to keep the pH in a decent range.

The bottom line is that the boil pH is where you want it. I like to boil my light beers with a pH @ 5.1. That's the same pH I like to pitch at. The lower pH keeps the maillard reaction from turning the beer darker. Some say it may inhibit protein break and will keep the beer from clearing, but I think that's more theory than reality and I have never had a problem with it.

Yes, I am acidifying the mash and sparge water at the same time. If I didn't acidify the sparge water it would hit the grain at 9 pH.

You are +1 that the low sparge pH must not matter. Thank you for that.

It is interesting because I also posted this question in another forum. Nobody was willing to answer the question, but of course water is complicated! Mostly they all said the calculator must be wonky or talked about how pH is important, etc.

I will try to remember to report back. I can check the sparge water pH, and might as well check the sparge wort pH too.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yes, I am acidifying the mash and sparge water at the same time. If I didn't acidify the sparge water it would hit the grain at 9 pH.

You are +1 that the low sparge pH must not matter. Thank you for that.

It is interesting because I also posted this question in another forum. Nobody was willing to answer the question, but of course water is complicated! Mostly they all said the calculator must be wonky or talked about how pH is important, etc.

I will try to remember to report back. I can check the sparge water pH, and might as well check the sparge wort pH too.

Looking forward to your finding man.