Putting grain in the oven

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Josh Hughes, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    #1 Josh Hughes, Sep 18, 2020
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
    If I put some of my Munich in the oven for 20 minutes at 300 to darken it will it affect fermentability? Want to darken my Dunkel without having to use much Chocolate since I didn’t buy carafa. I don’t want it roasty though. Would this even help? My Munich is 10L
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    It won't self-convert any more, I wouldn't think. Also be careful of getting the malt into the "Harsh Zone", the range of color where the malt tastes harsh and ashy. But it is an interesting experiment: Taste it afterward and you may have to store it for a while to mellow.
     
  3. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    Ok I definitely don’t want to “kill” it.
     
  4. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    There's a lot of info on time/temp/results for roasting grain. This chart is a good start:
    [​IMG]
     
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  5. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    If you only "kill" part of it, no problem. Add back some light base malt (Pilsner, 2-row, etc.) to recover the diastatic power. If you use 2-row or 6-row, add back the amount you roast - both are capable of converting their weight plus an equal amount of other malts. And for roasted malt, you're not doing a lot of converting, there's not much starch left in them. That's why you can steep them for use with extract.
     
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  6. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    I’ll just go 98% Munich 10 L and 2% chocolate this time then. I cannot believe I forgot to add carafa special to my last order. Oh well. I like how it turned out last time anyway. Just trying to see if I could get it a little more traditional grain wise. I’m doing a decoction so it’s not all traditional anyway. Thanks for the help. That chart is also cool. I’ve seen some English recipes that call for putting some MO in the oven a bit. Nice to know I can “possibly” get some of the specialty malt characteristics and color from buying base malt and using my oven. May actually be more fun!
     
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  7. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    The Recipe Calculator would beg to differ. :) There's 32-34 PPG in dark roasted malts. It's less than the 38 or so for base malts, but starches present in the malt didn't go anywhere when they were heated and they definitely add to the fermentable sugars.
    There's not much difference in Carafa and Chocolate roasts. If the number is similar, you'll get very similar results. I tend to keep regional malts together in recipes, using Carafa malts in German beers and Chocolate, etc in English beers but it's just a preference and won't make much impact on the final product if you mix rather than match. :)
     
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  8. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to keep them together too. I use so little of those roasted/specialty malts that it was easy to just buy a pound of chocolate since I make more English beers.
     
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  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I didn't say there was no extract in them, just not a lot of starch! You can get quite a bit of extract out of roasted malts through steeping, this is from Palmer's "How to Brew" site:

    upload_2020-9-18_12-10-55.png

    The difference between the "mashed" column - 24 - and the "steeped" column - 15 - is 9 ppg. With Black Patent, the difference is less:

    upload_2020-9-18_12-14-25.png

    1 ppg. So in the chocolate range, there appears to be about 9 ppg of starch to convert, accounting for conversion efficiency.

    I'll claim my own logic error: You don't need to add Pilsner to convert, unless you're really concerned about that few ppm of starch! Munich will convert itself, you lose 9 ppg if none of the residual starch in the chocolate-esque malt you're trying to make gets converted. I personally wouldn't worry about it.
     
  10. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    Does being milled already cause any issues?
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    It would have been easier to handle whole.... You're increasing the surface area exposed to heat so it may roast to the point you want quicker. Keep an eye on it and you should be fine.
     
  12. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    Even many of the lighter Munich malts have barely enough diastatic power to self concert. I wouldn't chance anything that would detract from that. If you want some extra color, consider cooking down a bit of the early runnings until they darken considerably and then blending them back into the wort. It works for Scottish Ales :)
     
  13. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I think you definitely do need extra diastatic power to convert (depending on depth of roasting) because the heat involved in roasting will surely denature the enzymes, (though I suspect that exact process is different than the activation and denaturing that takes place in the presence of water). I'm just contending that if there was starch in place before roasting, most of it should still be in place after roasting and would be available for conversion by enzymes provided by other malts.
     
  14. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    I ended up not roasting anything on my own. Used all Munich 10L and a touch of chocolate. Said DP was 29 but I imagine I’d be ok. It’s boiling now
     
  15. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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  16. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    Was going to suggest a longer mash, but it's too late now. You're very close to the threshold, hopefully close enough for reasonable conversion.
     
  17. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    Done Nice color! I mashed at 145 for 45 minutes then got it to 150 for another 30 then 10 minutes at 170 image.jpg
     
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  18. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    That should do the trick!
     
  19. Josh Hughes

    Josh Hughes Well-Known Member

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    Good deal last time I put 1 oz of Vienna to get it to 30 DP but I I didn’t want to open a bag for 1 ounce.
     

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