Now I see the light

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by BOB357, Nov 16, 2019.

  1. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    Some of you may have seen in my posts and responses that I find beers hopped with only Centennial are too sweet for my palate. I just started drinking an ale that I bittered with Centennial and used Cascade and Mosaic for flavor and aroma. This is a 1.049 OG beer with ~42 IBUs, 12 of which came from a 60 minute addition of Centennial. This beer exhibits the sweetness I speak of.

    Right now I'm listening to a podcast on Basic Brewing where James is talking to Scott Janish. who contends that,t some traits of early boil additions may very well be present in the final product. Interesting discussion that has almost convinced me that I'm tasting the effects of bittering with Centennial.

    Thinking I'll try a couple of recipes I bittered with Centennial, and sub in different hops, at the same IBU level to see if the bittering addition is where my dislike is coming from.

    Interesting podcast!
     
  2. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    I have been following you on this @BOB357 simply because I have as many #s of centennial from my bines as I can possibly use. I have been working on a house ale with just centennial and what works for me is multiple additions through the boil such as:
    2oz @60min.
    2 @40
    [email protected]
    [email protected] out
    [email protected] whirlpool.
    You have to really like centennial for this but the "sweetness" your describing is not as prevalent and seems to become part of the hop presence so to speak. And as a side note I have found pilsner malt for the base instead of standard 2 row (both Great Western) helps keep it tasting like beer with hops and without sweetness. Interesting stuff for me that podcast you describe. I may need lots more varieties around. I'm not huge on mosaic but my first thought for bitter addition change would be cascade as it's similar to centennial. There are plenty of hops out there that would fit with but bring different flavors into the brew and for me I like staying with what shades the brewery.
    Edit: 10gal batch
     
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  3. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks.
    I've done very similar to the hop schedule you suggest and still get the sweetness. Just never tied it to the 60 minute addition before. I use a lot of Centennial in my APAs and IPAs, both in the boil and post boil, but generally use Chinook, CTZ, Magnum and recently Warrior at 60.

    I've got about 3/4 keg of the APA in my OP and another APA that's ready to keg that I also used Centennial at 60, so will be finding out for sure if that's where I'm getting the sweetness from. Both used 14 grams of Centennial at 60 and are the same ABV and within 1 calculated IBU of each other. The second one has 1 oz. each of Cascade and Centennial at 10 and 1. (5.25 gallon batch)
     
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  4. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    It should be obvious that hop flavors and aromas carry over from the 60 minute addition. Beers that have only a 60 minute addition with no late hopping still have hop flavor. There's not just malt and "bitter", there are the flavors of spice, citrus, floral, etc that the hops naturally impart.
    There's no reason to assume that no flavor would come from the bittering charge and if you don't like the flavor of Centennial you should definitely be bittering with something else. Try Magnum or Warrior.
     
  5. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    I stated earlier in this thread that I never realized that the undesirable sweetness I've always found in beers hopped with only Centennial was coming from the bittering addition. That's quite different that not knowing that some flavor and aroma from the bittering addition carries through to the final product.

    The podcast just started me considering that could very well be the problem. It is now become pretty obvious to me that the flavor of the Centennial bittering addition that's coming through is the sweetness, which should make it obvious that I won't be using it as a bittering addition anymore.
     
  6. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    So you were isolating and tracking down the source of a certain flavor...that makes more sense. I've never experienced any particular sweetness in Centennial but it does come across as dense and somewhat dank for me. I could see where that could contribute to a certain cloying quality.
    Amarillo is one that for me has a certain cloying floral "sweet" property. I have to be careful how I use it. It's really useful for supporting other flavors but on it's own, it's a little much.
     
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  7. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on Amarillo! Solo I just can't take it. It reminds me of diesel fuel, but man it mixes great with other hops.
     
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  8. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Exactly! We brewed a SMASH with the free Amarillo hops with annual subscription to Zymurgy.... Didn’t turn out what I hoped for, but was a good chaser to a shot of Wild Turkey 101. :D
     
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  9. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

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    I didn't have time to read everything here.... But I get a "resiny" flavor from centennial. I could see other taste buds seeing that as sweet.
     
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  10. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    I get “floral” from centennial- like flowery, but not sweet. Maybe “floral” translates to “sweet” to you?
     
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  11. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    Could very well be. I suppose everyone'd palate is different.
    Nice to see you now have time to do something other than damage control. Bet you're getting a bit tired of that.
     
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  12. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Nice to be “back” and talking about beer again. :)

    I miss spending time on the forum when my attention is drawn in other directions, and @Pricelessbrewing has been a great help with all of the things I’ve been spending time on in the past. This retirement gig is hard enough work without adding “work” to it!!!!! :)
     
  13. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    Amen to that.
     
  14. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing QA Software Tester
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    Scott has done some great researching and is an awesome resource between his blog posts, his book (which I own two copies of and still haven't read through...), The podcasts he's done lately, and the brewery info they've posted on Facebook.

    A short summary of my understanding is that different hop oils have different solubility limits, and volatility. Some boil off relatively rapidly which is why even 10 minutes additions are so much less "fruity" than a whirlpool addition. Some of the more resiny/floral tend to be less volatile and should be able to last longer during a long boil.

    There's so much info we don't know about hops, it's amazing there's so little true research despite the giant industry.
     
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  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Scott... Janish? I have his book on IPAs, a wealth of all things hops and so far it's helped my use of hops quite a bit, not with IPAs but with German lagers. I've pretty much eliminated any late additions from them and now do everything with a generous charge of noble hops and the beers taste much more true to form! It's a dense book and at times a difficult read - there's not a lot of established science, it seems, on hops in beer. But it's worth the read.
     
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  16. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    It appears that there's a lot more research on hops going on in the last year or 2. Hopefully, it keeps going.
     
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  17. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    Sounds by your "short summary" I need to do some reading there. I have done a lot with full boil stepping down through 0 min. with centennial and went with multiple additions through entire boil because it seemed to bring more to the table than just 60min. bittering and whirlpool. Makes sense now. His book is on my list now. I'm tired of reading about water anyway.
     
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  18. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    It all depends on what you like. I still like old fashioned West Coast IPAs, with a boat load of C hops. My typical additions are at 60, 10 & 1, with a single dry hop addition of whatever boil hops I used. I tried whirlpooling vs. late kettle additions and didn't get what I wanted either. The affects of hop schedules are subjective, as many other things that go into making beer. Do what works for you.

    That said, research is a positive thing, and I'm always up to trying something new.
     
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