looking at water profiles

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by oliver, Nov 20, 2016.

  1. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    OK, I need some help getting my brain around this.

    How do I know how much brewing salt additions to put in my water by just looking at the water profile? I'm also rather confused about how to use the water calculator on here.

    at this point I only use Gypsum, Epsom, seasalt, and Calcium Chloride.

    tomorrow I want to brew a Belgian Wheat at ~30IBUs with WYEAST 3942-Belgian Wheat.

    So I was recommended today for about 5 gallons to do the following. Any help??
    • 1.95g Gypsum
    • 2.30g Epsom
    • 0.80g table salt
    • 4.50g Calcium Chloride
     
  2. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    do you have a brewing water report for your city water
     
  3. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    yes I do. I'm planning on using 100% distilled with additions
     
  4. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    ok you add your distilled at your profile Water Profiles create new call it RO and put 0 in all blanks then in the calculator you pull up RO as the source and the other as your target
     
  5. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    #5 Thurston Brewer, Nov 20, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 20, 2016
    It all starts with knowledge about the water you're using; you can't adjust the water to match a profile unless you know what you're starting with.

    I sent a sample to Ward Labs and for US$42 I got a complete analysis of the ions that are important to brewing. Then, I put that info into the calculator, set the size of my batch (be sure to use the total amount of water that goes into your beer, not the amount you end up with after boiling) and select the water profile I'm aiming for given the style I'm trying to make. Then, add different salts until you match the profile with about 10 ppm of each ion. Here's an example:
    • I want to make a 3 gallon batch of stout, which means I start with 5 gallons of water
    • My water analysis says (from RO source):
      • pH = 6.4
      • Sodium = 4 ppm
      • Calcium = 1 ppm
      • Magnesium = <1 ppm (effectively 0)
      • Sulfate = <1 ppm
      • Chloride = 2 ppm
      • Carbonate = <1 ppm
    • Water profile for stout (Dublin) says:
      • Sodium should be 12 ppm
      • Calcium should be 110 ppm
      • Magnesium should be 4 ppm
      • Sulfate should be 53 ppm
      • Chloride should be 19 ppm
      • Carbonate should be 280 ppm
    • I need to add mineral salts to change my water to match the target profile, bearing in mind that:
      • Calcium Carbonate (Chalk) adds both Calcium and Carbonate
      • Calcium Chloride adds both Calcium and Chloride
      • Calcium Sulfate (Gypsum) adds both Calcium and Sulfate
      • Sodium Chloride (Salt) adds both Sodium and Chloride
      • Sodium Bicarbonate (Baking soda) adds both Sodium and Carbonate
      • Magnesium Sulfate (Epsom salts) adds both Magnesium and Sulfate
    So, if you want to add Chloride, you can use Calcium Chloride (you'll get Calcium as well) or Salt (you'll get sodium as well). If you don't need Sodium, you'll have to go with Calcium Chloride. The process of adjustment is filled with trade-offs and compromises like that.

    Here's a pic of my example, after I made my adjustments, using the Brewer's Friend Windows app:

    upload_2016-11-20_13-10-34.png

    Be prepared to do a lot of tweaking and twaddling until you get something that works.

    Enjoy playing Water-God!!
     
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  6. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    of course Im talking about the advanced water calculator not the calculator in your brew session tab or the stand alone in the calculators menu

    it seems the brew session tab called water chemistry will work too for that example
     
  7. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    OK I'm getting closer, thank you, this is making more sense now. I got all green stars in the advanced calculator with the numbers recommended to me (posted above).

    I wish I could just add my source profile (which is distilled at all zeros) and then add my target profile, and it would spit out recommended salt additions.
     
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  8. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    I do too I think its been brought up but no word so far
     
  9. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    Can't be that easy !
    Where's the art in that ?
     
  10. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    It's so easy I ignore it completely. I'm a salt free brewer! :D
     
  11. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    byo.com has a spreadsheet that does that, but it is somewhat incomplete, as it has no place to enter sulfate, and doesn't cover all the mineral salts commonly used.

    So far the best I've found is the Bru'n'water spreadsheet. Very comprehensive and includes great educational info to explain the hows and whys of water adjustment. It's not automatic either, though, so you'll still have to fiddle and futz to get the values right, but that's kinda fun in my opinion. Think of it as a sort of game...

    Hey! How about a video game for creating beer recipes? Am I a genius, or what?

    (don't answer that...)
     
  12. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    most days all I do is try to get my calcium up, mine is low, you need it to have a strong fermentation
     
  13. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    My main concerns are Residual Alkalinity, Sulfate/Chloride balance and mash pH. Other than that, I'm good!
     
  14. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    well I'm looking for very soft water tomorrow. and the New Orleans tap is extremely hard water, big bicarbonate.
     
  15. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    I get my brewing water (and our drinking/cooking water, and water for the tropical fish tank) from a machine outside the local grocery store. For 30c/gallon you get water that's been through RO, two levels of charcoal, a micron filter and UV irradiation. Pretty damned good pre-conditioning for the money, and the profile is dead soft, so I can make anything I want to out of it by adding salts.

    The company is called Glacier - maybe something like that near you?
     
  16. Thurston Brewer

    Thurston Brewer Active Member

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    I checked 70115 (maybe not your exact zip code) on their website (glacierwater.com) and came up with this:

    upload_2016-11-20_15-26-34.png

    Just take empty bottles and some change to the penguins...
     
  17. Mark D Pirate

    Mark D Pirate Well-Known Member

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    What's your local water like ?
    My mains is pretty good for brewing and just gets de chlorinated and a little gypsum
     
  18. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    #18 Ozarks Mountain Brew, Nov 20, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2016
    I know your not talking to me but this is mine
    29 7 12 13 2 114, PH 8
    this is what I usually end up with
    70 7 12 27 83 114 PH 5.5
     
  19. jeffpn

    jeffpn Well-Known Member

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    It's hard, but I don't know how hard, or what's in it. I use a carbon filter system. I brewed my first BIAB here and it worked. I never looked back. I know I'm lucky it works. As a result, it stymies me how concerned everyone is about water. I know it's important. I think I'm just lucky.
     
  20. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    That penguin near the place marker is actually the grocery store I shop at, but I've never taken a look around to see where their glacier machine is. I know that Whole Foods has some sort of machine in it that will do RO and Distilled water for under a dollar per gallon. AND they'll sell me a 5 gallon jug the first time for like $15.
     

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