Lager Question

Nola_Brew

Nola_Brew

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I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner (used W34/70) 12 days ago. In the process of raising temps for the diacetyl rest.
I really don't want to tie up my fermentation chamber for another 30 days.

Is it possible to cold crash for two days, fine with gelatin then bottle and place in a warm environment for 2 weeks then an additional 2-4 weeks at lager temps? . If I use gelatin can I simply skip the lager phrase?
Would that process have much, if any, effect on carbonation or taste?
 
Try it and see. If you're on to something, there's an entire brewing industry that is misinformed.

I'm considering lagering for two weeks instead of four on my current Munich Helles. What you propose is radically different.
 
I was kinda hoping that someone did something similar before trying. Don't want to ruin an entire batch.
If no one else responds, maybe I'll lager for two weeks as you mentioned and see what happens.
 
Good read but really does answer my questions.
There has to be someone on this forum who bottled then lagered. I cant believe there isn't.
 
you may not have read this fully he did what your talking about and didn't see much difference in taste
 
Oops. I zeroed in on "Skip the lager temps." I know I've seen discussions on lagering in bottles. I briefly considered doing it myself, but never did.
 
Decided to cold crash, fine with gelatin for two days then bottle. Once bottled I'll place on top of my upright freezer where temps are approx. 72 degrees. Will leave there for 2-3 weeks. Sample and if carbed to my liking will lager in my fridge at 38.
 
Ozarks Mountain Brew said:
this might be helpful, the sulfur reduction is the most important

http://www.onbeer.org/2012/05/the-impor ... -lagering/
Click to expand...
From that page:
This beer addresses the complexity of answering that question. No, it is not “necessary”. You can make a great tasting lager without a period of cold storage. However, lagering does accomplish something. It will subtly alter and shape the beer and make it more “lager-like” (if I can be obtuse). For homebrewers (and small craft brewers), not lagering is a viable option if equipment or time are an issue. But something, however subtle, will be lost. But we all make compromises at various times – this is just one of them.
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I saw many similar statements throughout my research into the pilsner / lagering process. In other words, you can still make great beer. It just won't be as lager-y as it could have been. Love it. :)

It's not necessary, no, but it might have been better. You'll never know, unless you split your batch and do your own test comparison.
 
Nola_Brew said:
I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner (used W34/70) 12 days ago. In the process of raising temps for the diacetyl rest.
I really don't want to tie up my fermentation chamber for another 30 days.

Is it possible to cold crash for two days, fine with gelatin then bottle and place in a warm environment for 2 weeks then an additional 2-4 weeks at lager temps? . If I use gelatin can I simply skip the lager phrase?
Would that process have much, if any, effect on carbonation or taste?
Click to expand...
I too just ventured into the pilsner realm by trying my hand at making a Pilsner Urquell clone. I had never done anything except ales up until that point. I'm hoping this whole process is worth it, because I can't count how many times my Inner-Brewer has said, "That's done enough, I could drink that easily." But, I'm sticking to the Plan, and I'm going to wait the entire 4 weeks in cold storage at 34°F if it kills me. Everyone's champing at the bit to drink it, but nope, we are WAITING, dammit!! No one is happy with me. :)

Maybe I missed something: You say you don't want to tie up your fermentation vessel for another 30 days, but you're going to cold crash for 2 days, then lager an additional 2 to 4 weeks... If you go the additional 4 weeks, isn't that a total of 30 days and tying up your fermentation chamber for 30 days???
 
EbonHawk said:
Nola_Brew said:
I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner (used W34/70) 12 days ago. In the process of raising temps for the diacetyl rest.
I really don't want to tie up my fermentation chamber for another 30 days.

Is it possible to cold crash for two days, fine with gelatin then bottle and place in a warm environment for 2 weeks then an additional 2-4 weeks at lager temps? . If I use gelatin can I simply skip the lager phrase?
Would that process have much, if any, effect on carbonation or taste?
Click to expand...
I too just ventured into the pilsner realm by trying my hand at making a Pilsner Urquell clone. I had never done anything except ales up until that point. I'm hoping this whole process is worth it, because I can't count how many times my Inner-Brewer has said, "That's done enough, I could drink that easily." But, I'm sticking to the Plan, and I'm going to wait the entire 4 weeks in cold storage at 34°F if it kills me. Everyone's champing at the bit to drink it, but nope, we are WAITING, dammit!! No one is happy with me. :)

Maybe I missed something: You say you don't want to tie up your fermentation vessel for another 30 days, but you're going to cold crash for 2 days, then lager an additional 2 to 4 weeks... If you go the additional 4 weeks, isn't that a total of 30 days and tying up your fermentation chamber for 30 days???
Click to expand...

Initially I wanted to lager for 4 weeks. Then I started thinking I have 4 brews lined up before I need to head out of town.

So I decided I would cold crash for two days then fine with gelatin. I usually go two days then bottle. I will then store for 3-4 weeks to get the carbonation level I want then put them in my house fridge. That will allow me to start brewing again and put my fermentation chamber to use.

If we have cold weather here I would be able to lager in my garage but it's 80 degrees today and no chance of any cold weather until winter hits again at the end of the year.

I've never brewed a Pilsner before and wanted to give it a try. I've stuck to brewing ales and wanted to try something different. My weekends stating in September through Mid Feb were booked with my two daughters getting married a month apart plus other familiar obligations so I was forced to brew this pilsner end of Feb.

Probably should have waited but I had ordered the grains in Dec thinking I would be able to squeeze in a brew day but that didn't happen. We'll see what happens. I'll be taking a gravity sample on Wednesday and hopefully it's finished and no off tastes.
 
I can make a pils and a lager with an ale yeast, its really easy, all you have to do is ferment at 55 to 60 for 10 days then cold crash at 34 for 2 weeks and it taste just the same, drinking one right now
 

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Ozarks Mountain Brew said:
I can make a pils and a lager with an ale yeast, its really easy, all you have to do is ferment at 55 to 60 for 10 days then cold crash at 34 for 2 weeks and it taste just the same, drinking one right now
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That looks great. I had some US-05 I could have used but I didn't think about it until it was too late. Next time I may try using ale yeast.
 
I actually used 04 for this batch just because its all I had but it came out great
 
Update: Will be bottling today. Added gelatin Saturday. Plan is to allow a two week bottle condition in mid 70's then store for 30 days at 38-40. It may not be ideal lager temps but it's the best I can do for now. I took a gravity reading Saturday and still at 1.020. Not sure why it didn't get any lower other than my mash temp for a little high, like 155.5 for 15 minutes. Would not think that played a roll. Anyway the sample tasted good.
 
Nola_Brew said:
I brewed a Bohemian Pilsner (used W34/70) 12 days ago. In the process of raising temps for the diacetyl rest.
I really don't want to tie up my fermentation chamber for another 30 days.

Is it possible to cold crash for two days, fine with gelatin then bottle and place in a warm environment for 2 weeks then an additional 2-4 weeks at lager temps? . If I use gelatin can I simply skip the lager phrase?
Would that process have much, if any, effect on carbonation or taste?
Click to expand...

I actually did plan on writing a response.... The schedule you mention could be very easily modified to this: Bring the beer down to lager temperature for 2-4 weeks, bottle, then place it in a warm environment for 2 weeks to carbonate. In other words, a standard lagering regime. Lagering clears the beer and reduces sulfur compounds, as previously mentioned in this thread. Your suggestion is creative and if you execute it, let us know how it works. I do trust a couple hundred years of German experience crafting this beer, though, and will choose to stick to more standard lagering procedures, particularly when the new proposal saves no time at all.
 
Hey Nola, sorry I'm late to the party :(
I used 34/70 on my last 2 lagers and found it to be a very low sulfur producer,monster maltose muncher, and very forgiving in the temperature (48-73 degrees from the manufacturer site and on package)
I followed the quick lager process from brulosphy and had excellent results~> grain to keg 10 days (my german ancestors just rolled over lol)
http://brulosophy.com/methods/lager-method/
my 2 cents for FWIW may help your scheduling in the future

What I did
1 min pure o2--pitch 48 F--free rise to 53 F--high krausen day 4--when SG 50% of expected FG raised temp to 68 over 3 days --@ FG cooled back to 50 degrees F over 3 days --added gelatin and continued cooling to 38 F then keg <~I haven't bottled in some time but imagine that this is where you would prime, cap and carb at room temp for 2 weeks give or take; I have a feeling that if able to prime cap and store at 45ish that 34/70 would have it carbed up after lagering 4-5weeks [conjecture only no basis in fact]
 
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