IS WHOLE HOP VOLUME CONSIDERED?

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by Head First, Aug 4, 2019.

  1. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    I have been brewing with lots of homegrown hops lately and have come up short on volume with larger hop bills fairly consistently. Not huge but still short when using whole hops. I know there is more absorption with whole cones and I do just throw them in the BK and have hop absorption set high for this but is the volume of hops themselves considered with ending kettle volume? Is hop volume considered in the hop absorption setting in my profile? This is not hop absorption but volume added from the cones themselves I am wondering about. If I brew with pellet hops they go in the bag and are removed when whirlpool is over with about 2 qts of trub left after wort transfer. When using whole hops they just drop down and are somewhat piled in the center of BK(keggle)and not removed until after wort transfer. This amount varies quite a bit with amount of whole hops used, both in volume of hops and trub/lost wort. So when measuring end of boil volume does the software consider them still part of the volume or is this something I need to just adjust for on my own. I think I need to make my own adjustments but just double checking.
    CHEERS
     
  2. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    Yes- so when you have your settings to be the post-boil, you'll want a higher volume there, and less in the fermenter as a result.
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    You may definitely have to make your own adjustments to account for it (some brewers put the hops in a bag, and then squeeze the bag at the end getting far less loss to hops absorption).
     
  3. Pricelessbrewing

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    I think you're referring to the volume the hops physical occupy / displace correct? If so, I have not seen any sort of numbers on what that might be, and it will likely depend on the freshness of the wet hop, and water content.

    You'll just have to take accurate measurements and account for it by adding that volume to the batch size and post boil volume yourself.
     
  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    You can test it: Take a known volume of water, chuck the hops in, let them absorb as much water as they can, then record the new volume. If you want to be very diligent, do it several times with several different amounts of hops then do a regression.
     
  5. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    Yup just wanted to check but was pretty sure. The volume adjustments are what I was looking for.

    Just double checking. I was surprised by the difference in volume/physical displacement. Not wet hops right now but yes they would be coming soon.
    I use the whole cones to filter out trub and it works well. Not huge differences but enough to pay attention,couple of qts sometimes.
     
  6. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    So is the calc button added to the recipe editor for use in the situation I have described @Yooper , in other words to correct volume left in BK after transfer to fermenter?
     
  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That's something that could go into that initial boil volume calculator.... :D
    The dry hop volume is simply the volume of the hop pellets and cones (without the air in between) that goes into the kettle. It's negligible in most cases - a pound of vacuum-packed hop pellets is about 1 quart, estimating from the bricks I have downstairs. That makes the dry volume of an ounce of hops about 1/4 cup English, about 60 ml. Cones take up more volume but even vacuum packed, most of that extra volume is empty space. So I'd go with the rule of thumb that every ounce of hops increases your pre-boil volume by 1/4 cup/60 ml.

    At homebrew scale, we can safely ignore the volume contribution of the hops themselves.
     
  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    No, it only calculates boil-off.
     
  9. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    I have found hops to be more volume as whole cone. As they filter out trub also, the amount of volume is much higher. 8 oz of whole hops changes volume quite considerably with everything being considered in a 12gal boil. Absorption, trub and hops themselves turn into quite a large mass left in boil kettle. As in comparison to pellets, a 1/2 # of well dried cones in a vacuumed bag is taking up a quart of space. Hydrate them and add trub and what i have found is thats enough volume to be considered for your efficiency which messes with the calculator. With my system without whole hops it leaves around 1-2 qts of trub but add 8 oz of cones and that volume grows to more than triple. I have tried calculating this with BK dead space but have found it inconsistent.
    After reading the thread "What's up with boil size" and Yoops explanation I wondered so thought what the hell and hit the calc button which changed my ending boil volume and OG to exactly what I got. More than likely coincidence it sounds like but was curious.
     
  10. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    The volume of the hops is the volume of dry matter. You are talking about absorption. The dry matter is an addition to the liquid volume. The liquid absorbed is a subtraction from the total amount of wort,
     
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  11. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    Yes, absorption, dry matter and trub. I am trying to figure out if the fancy new button will help my calculations. When I drain to FV through the hop filter bed it captures at least 80% of the trub. So does the recipe editor include the volume of hop matter? Just by changing absorption rate dosen't calculate out with proper volumes all the time. I asked if this recipe editor used actual hop volume and was told no, but then saw the other discussion and Yoopers explaination of the calc button and wondered if that pertained to my question.
     
  12. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    When I used the fancy new button I got the original volume minus boil-off. None of the other losses in my equipment profile were used to get the result. Quite frankly, the calculation is so trivial I'm surprised it was implemented.
     
  13. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    What i find is if my end boil volume is what the calculator calls for, and the recipe calls for over 1 or 2oz whole cones I come up short in fermenter. Quite short if I use up to 8oz or more.
    If using pellet hops in a bag and squeezing them then different results. So I can't just adjust my profile to fix unless i adjust for each recipe. So the easy button would be have a seperate note on brew day to adjust sparge water acording to how many oz I used and figures from my own tests of volume/ absorption of whole hops.
     

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