Honey Porter Father's Day gift

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Blackmuse, May 10, 2020.

  1. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Hey folks. Just looking for some feedback on this Honey Porter Recipe... My father used to love the Samuel Adams Honey Porter but they no longer make it so I am trying to make something close too it.
    My father likes High ABV beers so I have stepped this up a notch. Certainly looking for your input. I was considering using Brown Malt as roughly a 1/3 of the grain bill....

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/992400/pop-s-honey-porter

    Also - if anyone has a Sam Honey Porter clone recipe then please feel free to share!
     
  2. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    2,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Back in the mountains
    4 to 8 oz of Canadian Honeymalt would help the honey flavors come out better if that is what you are looking for. Honey by itself in a bigger beer just sort of gets lost. Compare how much maple flavor you got from all the syrup you used for the Brown you brewed.
     
  3. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Excellent point! I'm also worried 2lbs might dry this out a but much so some Honey Malt is certainly a good idea!
     
    YaleH, Head First and Trialben like this.
  4. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2016
    Messages:
    9,420
    Likes Received:
    9,471
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Pest control tech
    Location:
    Palmwoods QLD
    I'd be dropping the Honey altogether and just use the honey malt.for sweetness as you know it'll cut the body down on this porter that looks on the sweeter side.
     
    Megary likes this.
  5. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    1,729
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Agree on dropping the honey altogether.

    Is there enough diastatic power there? I'd probably kick the MO up to 50-60% and cut back on the brown. 30% is a healthy dose of brown for sure. If you need color, a pinch of chocolate would work.

    Good luck. Keep us posted.
     
  6. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    So originally this recipe was built on the 1:1:1 ratio of Pale, Brown and Amber malt. This is why I had 30% of Brown and a small split in Victory and caramel wheat. It's starting to look completely different now and quite possibly like too many malts... What do you all say to something more like 50% Pale (I may switch to Golden Promise - I prefer it) and then a split between victory and brown at roughly 20% each and then the honey malt close to 10%...?
     
  7. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    @Megary - You were right about needing to add some dark malt for color after cutting the brown down... I have chocolate but thought carafa II might give a touch less roastiness.

    What do you all think of the adjusted recipe?

    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/992400/pop-s-honey-porter

    What might I expect from this? I've never used brown malt ... I'm hoping it will have notes of coffee, biscuits/bread and honey - maybe a bit of dark chocolate.
     
    Trialben likes this.
  8. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lakewood, CO
    I would personally drop the victory all together. The brown malt should provide plenty of biscuity toasty goodness. Just my take.
     
    Trialben and Megary like this.
  9. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    1,729
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Carafa is a good pick for color.
    I usually get a nutty, earthiness from Brown malt and it is a staple in my Porters. But I don't usually push it past 10% so I can't say if it would be overwhelming beyond that.
    I think the wild-card is the Honey Malt. I've never used so I can't suggest a %, but if you could set that "honey-ness" value, I think the rest of the recipe will fall in line.
    If you still think the recipe is missing something, Munich is always a great choice for toasty, malty goodness.

    You're dialing it in!
     
  10. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    I'm hesitant but listening... What would you replace that 16-18% with? @Megary mentions Munich but I'm not sure if that will make it too "malty" but I have good reason to believe that Sam Adams would have included some in their grist.

    Maybe an option would be to increase the base malt closer to 60% and add 8-10% of either Munich or maybe even go back to the caramel wheat...
     
  11. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lakewood, CO
    #11 Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, May 11, 2020
    Last edited: May 11, 2020
    well 10% honey malt is a lot. It will add a lot of sweet malty character as well. You can’t ever really go wrong with some Munich.

    6# mo
    2.5# brown
    1.5# munich (or just add more mo)
    1# honey
    10 oz carafa

    Whatever you make will be great. Just throwing out ideas.
     
    Megary likes this.
  12. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    1,729
    Trophy Points:
    93
    This Honey Porter thing has completely submerged me so I decided to just e-mail Sam Adams and ask for some hints. :) I'll let you know if I hear back!

    In the meantime, I found this awesome 3 minute video:
    https://www.craftbrewingbusiness.co...oney-porter-uses-heather-honey-from-scotland/

    Some notes from the video:
    The honey comes from Scottish Heather Honey. How and when it's added is a ???
    They use their proprietary 2-Row blend + Munich 10, C60 + ???
    UK hops (I would assume EKG)
    Also mentions German hop aroma.
    Tasting notes are roasty, malty, sweet, floral aroma.

    **Edit: No mention of where the roast comes from. Brown? Roast Barley? Chocolate?**

    Down the rabbit hole!
     
  13. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    THis is the kinda thing I have been looking for! Thanks a ton! I have Munich 10 and sort of figured it was in it. I also had a feeling there was a caramel malt involved (that's why I had the carawheat) - as so many eer reviews mentioned a subtle sweetness that many attribute to the honey but I knew couldn't be the case as I have used honey quite a bit and it only dries a beer out and provides very little "honey"... Your edit is where I am the most perplexed! I am curious what gives it the roast... Hmmmm. The roast flavor is what I have been using the brown malt to acheive. The Victory I have in for some biscuity nuttiness but can certainly adapt...
     
  14. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Hop-wise my guess is Fuggles and Halletaur... I may be able to achieve thse floral pieces without the honey and good dose of halletaur... - Bummer is I don't have Fuggles but I do have EKG and Northern Brewer... I also have Phoenix which could be cool - chocolate/molasses!
     
  15. Megary

    Megary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2019
    Messages:
    684
    Likes Received:
    1,729
    Trophy Points:
    93
    I think EKG is the better choice for floral as Fuggles is really earthy (some say like English dirt!).

    I think there are a lot of ways to get to malty and roasty, but like you say, the trick is to get a honey flavor out of honey without drying out the beer. I would love to hear from the members of this community on the best way to do that. I only brewed with honey once and swore I'd never do it again!

    Im assuming it can be added post-fermentation but exactly what the best technique is, I don't know.
     
  16. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2018
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    364
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Lakewood, CO
    It’s all about which honey you use. I made a honey wheat with honey from my buddy who is a bee keeper along with 12 oz honey malt. I think I added it post fermentation but can’t remember. The end product was very malty sweet and floral. Grocery bought clover honey won’t do the trick.
     
    Trialben and Megary like this.
  17. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2012
    Messages:
    2,251
    Likes Received:
    2,450
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Back in the mountains
    #17 Head First, May 12, 2020
    Last edited: May 12, 2020
    Unless you have something solid to work from it is a crap shoot really. I very seldom use more than 1/2lb of honey malt in 10gal. Honey malt is just a suggestion as it is in the name. You don't know but what it could be a crisp clean porter made with honey instead of cane sugar. Honey is a very subtle flavor that is hard to pick out of a complex beer. Honey malt adds sweetness so flavors that blend well to it stand out a bit. To much and it is just a sweet beer.
     
    Megary and Trialben like this.
  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 16, 2012
    Messages:
    9,363
    Likes Received:
    6,592
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Aurora, CO, USA
    I'll add to ^^^^. Unless your beer is very light or the honey very strong, you're just as well off using table sugar or even (shudder) high fructose corn syrup. In most beers it's both expensive sugar or a potential source of infection. Also, it doesn't taste like honey, it tastes like mead. I've made several beers with honey and have not been able to taste it in any of them. So if I want honey flavor in a beer I use honey malt and if I want thinner body, I use sugar.

    Personal opinion, strongly stated. No intent to offend. Bottom line, I find most honey in beer to be an expensive source of sugar.
     
    Head First and Blackmuse like this.
  19. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:
    Thanks folks! I don't feel the need to have real honey. I think the honey malt will do the trick. EKG is by far my all-time favorite hop so it'll stay too. Now, I just need to lock in the grist.... I'm thinking that based on all of you folks feedback and the video I will drop the victory (I probably have enough roastiness with the brown) and probably up base malt to 60%, split the rest with munich 10 and a dab of caramel malt... I think I'll make a copy of the recipe so I can remember the tweaks.

    Thanks all! Keep me posted if you learn anything new or have ANY other input! I will post the new recipe in a bit.
     
  20. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 8, 2012
    Messages:
    918
    Likes Received:
    933
    Trophy Points:
    93
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Electrician (Previously a 6th grade Teacher)
    Location:
    Maine
    Home Page:

Share This Page

arrow_white