Filtering

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Steve SPF, Jun 5, 2020.

  1. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    I would like to filter some of the guck that gets into my kegs from the fermenter. I'm thinking of introducing a straining process from fermenter to keg to catch the chunky stuff and then leave it under gas for a week or so, then do a pressure transfer to a clean keg with an inline filter to get rid of as much haze as possible.

    Anybody have a filter setup or any knowledge to share?

    Thanks in advance for help, as ever.
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Generally not recommended due to oxidation risk. You'll need a plate chiller with the appropriate screens and a pump. I don't have one and have never considered one, nor have I had a particular "guck" problem. Fining is likely a safer and easier solution - gelatin works great!
     
  3. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    Well, there's no oxidation risk in a keg to keg pressure transfer is there? So maybe a risk from fermenter to keg?

    I'm desparately trying to avoid animal products so gelatine and isinglass are out. I've tried a silica based product and the results are disappointing; an that's the polite version!
     
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  4. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    There's PVVP (I think that's the name). I don't have a good answer for this one unless, as you say, you keg the beer and leave it still (just enough carbonation to set the lid, and then pressure transfer it from one keg through the filter into a second purged keg? In my very limited experience, any gunk that makes it to the keg gets eliminated on the first pour, I suppose there's a chance of clogging... I'm assuming you're not racking using a siphon. The gunk comes out first, so why not just pour the first pint you transfer out? If you stop racking before you suck up or pour out any of the floating gunk, that should give you all the clear beer in between. Grasping at straws, here....
     
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  5. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    Straws may be the answer :)

    I'm sure that time and temps would do the trick, I could leave the beer for a month and it would drop clear and be happy. I want the beer in a week or two though and want to find a way of getting it without using fish guts or cow heels :)
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Isn't there some vegetarian gelatin out there? Still grasping...
     
  7. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I've heard that biofine is the vegan equivalent for gelatin. I haven't used it and most comments imply it's effective but not as effective as gelatin.
     
  8. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    I've tried a silica based product called Brausol with pretty disappointing results, wasn't able to find a supply of biofine.

    Filtering seems to be a part of pro-brewing setups, that's why I'm curious. I know they use centrifuges as well but those are out of the question and filtering does make sense to me.

    @Nosybear Vegetarian gelatine sounds like a contradiction in terms :) It seems like the alternative are silica based products and my results have been spotty with those.
     
  9. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

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    I recently picked up the fermzilla and used it to rack a beer straight from fermenter to keg - Left all the gunk behind! - Honestly better than my other conical fermenters (fast-rack)... Its a much more expensive option to say the least so - sorry if that is not helpful at all...

    Maybe there are other places in your process where you can help get yourself to clearer beer quicker?

    I do a constant recirculation during the mash and my beers have been coming out much clearer than they ever have before. Typically with only 2-3 weeks in the keg. - Can anyone else speak to this?
     
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  10. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    I have two new fermenters that have dished bottoms so those should help with the initial transfer. I guess I'm looking to compress the next stage and am aware that pro-brewers use filters.
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I'm just citing what I saw in the Interwebs and we know everything in there is true... You might give one of the vegetarian products a try and let us know...
     
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  12. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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  13. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    #13 HighVoltageMan!, Jun 6, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 6, 2020
    I have used filters and still have them, but there in a box in my barn loft. It’s a lot of work and as Nosy said it has the potential to oxicidize your beer even in a closed system. The filters have to be purged by using cO2 to push sanitized water through them prior to filtering beer to reduce oxygen in the filtering system. It gets really time consuming, a complete PITA.
    The filters available to home brewers are paper based and have a limited ability to remove yeast and polyphenols due to filter quality. A 3-5 micron nominal size doesn’t remove chill haze. Pro brewers use diatomaceous earth filters which removes yeast and the beer is polished brilliantly clear. These system are very expensive and elaborate.

    The best way to clear the beer for home brewers is with gelatin (unfortunately for you). PVPP was mentioned as well and it targets polyphenols which is the main reason for chill haze, but it will not help to drop yeast. PVPP can be added to the last 10 minutes of the boil along with a whirlfloc tablet. Dosage is about 10-12 grams per 5 gallons/20 liters. A high pH during boil will also reduce protein precipitation, a pH of 5.2 or lower helps with both wort clarity and keeps the wort from getting darker than intended.
    The other thing to try a floating pick up tube in the keg to draw only the very top of the keg.

    I use all these techniques and I can produce polished beers. The biggest thing you can do to get a polished beer is cold conditioning /lagering. This can take 1-3 weeks at 32F/0C. I think you can do it without filtering and as one who used to do it, I don’t recommend it.
     
  14. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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  15. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    #15 Steve SPF, Jun 7, 2020
    Last edited: Jun 7, 2020
    @HighVoltageMan!

    That's probably the answer I was looking for, some personal experience.
    I'm just a little frustrated that the beer takes so long to clear up. I don't honestly mind finings if it's going into a cask because people expect that, a traditional ingredient in a traditional product seems reasonable.

    For me I want bright and clear beers in keg and bottle without animal products. I understand that time will accomplish that for me but am constantly looking to bring it forwards where I can.
     
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  16. Blackmuse

    Blackmuse Well-Known Member

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    You know what's funny? We tend to care more than the drinker just how clear our beer is. At least that is what I have found... lol
    I had looked into filtering, out of curiosity, but once I started looking for a system and read lots of reviews complaining about tasting plastic in their finished beer, I bailed and opted to just give it time. I have actually never read or seen a video about a homebrewer "raving" about filtering.
     
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  17. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    I'm with Blackmuse here. I usually worry more about the beer that folks are drinking than my guests do...they don't care about clear they just want tasty.
    For a vegan version I use 1 1/2 tsp Irish moss @ 15, a nice whirlpool at KO and carefully filling the fermenter through a hop spider hung over the side of the fermenter...which picks up a surprising amount of guck AND helps oxygenate. At least a week in a cool place before I bottle to clear things up (I have found putting the fermenter over my A/C vent works surprisingly well - we like it cold in my house!) The beer clears more while bottle conditioning in my cool basement, even for just a week. A couple days in the fridge and a careful pour and things are usually nice and clear.
     
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  18. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    Just a quick update.

    I went back to the Brausol datasheet and they say it can be used to great effect at whirpool so I tried that, nothing ventured etc., and found that Brausol at whirpool combined with protafloc at 15 min gives a very clean transfer into the fermenter.

    I am losing a bit in the kettle now but figure I can fix that by degrees, maybe time to buy a hop spider. The wort looks much, much cleaner at this stage so it's a step forward.
     
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  19. ^Tony^

    ^Tony^ Active Member

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    I keep meaning to build myself a hop spider. Super easy...but not at the top of the "list" yet.
     
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  20. Steve SPF

    Steve SPF Well-Known Member

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    Nor my list so far. I'm just starting to get interested in yield as well and don't like too much of my hard work going down the drain. It's degrees isn't it? Get the basics sorted and then tidy up round the edges.
     
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