Fairly sweet, malty brew desired. Is this it?

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by The Green Man, Sep 22, 2017.

  1. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    #1 The Green Man, Sep 22, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2017
    Hello fellow brewers. Just put this together and have ordered the grist and fuggles. Question is, will it turn out how I am expecting? I am gunning for fairly sweet, malty, not very hoppy, medium-strong ale. Most similar I can think of would be Old Speckled Hen or Abbot ale, of my homeland, UK.
    Anyway, here it is for your perusal. Feedback and opinions welcome, good, bad...and not too ugly please.

    <iframe width="100%" height="500px" src="https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/embed/543501" frameborder="0"></iframe>
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That depends on how you ferment it. Yeast selection is key to making a beer "sweet" without actually adding an unfermentable sugar (read lactose - no way would I ever again put an artificial sweetener in a beer). Use a highly flocculant yeast like Windsor (one of the English yeasts that drop out of the beer very quickly) to get a sweet beer. Also, esters are the source of "sweetness" in a fully attenuated beer so if you want sweet, think the top of the fermentation temperature range. But don't go above it - fusel alcohols are definitely NOT sweet (and I'm still suffering the after-effects from drinking some of them last night - not my beers, though).
     
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  3. chub1

    chub1 Active Member

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    Don't mean to be rude but Old Speckled or Abbott wouldn't have cascade in!!!more like Challenger and fuggles or First gold and EKG in the Abbott i would have thought!.
    :)
     
  4. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    You're absolutely right there about the cascade. The recipe builder said the brew was lacking ibu's and I have some cascades left over (plus, I like cascade). So, it won't be a clone ale, but I am mainly wondering whether it will be sweet and malty enough with the current recipe.
     
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  5. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    You could mash higher as well producing more dextrins and therefore a higher final gravity. Maybe 68-69c. I usually finish my mash around 71c for half hour to hopefully gouge out any dextrins left in the mash.
     
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  6. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Cheers, will be using S04. I am reasonably sure that drops out pretty early. Was thinking more middle of the range for temperature, but maybe I should keep it at 18c for the first three-four days and then it let it go to 20c to get the esters.
     
  7. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Wow, 68-69, that looks pretty high. I normally go for 66c, but that hasn't yielded the malty sweetness yet. Thanks for the advice, will give it a go.
     
  8. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    You can go right up to 71c without killing enzymes I've found.
    I did a stout a while back at 68c it Finnished at 1.016 even with WLP090 nipping at its heals:).
     
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  9. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I think it's it a good grain bill. Personally, I'd replace a little of the MO with some Munich and maybe find a place for a bit of Victory or Biscuit. As is, it should be a good one. Be careful of mashing too high. S-04 will attenuate about right with an average temp mash but it leaves quite a lot of sweetness in a high-temp mash wort. If you're not careful the dextrin and residual sweetness will add up to cloying. The proper balance is a sweet/malty flavor with a clean finish. I'd mash at 66C or so and depend on the MO and crystal malt for sweetness. It'll be there.
     
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  10. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    #10 The Green Man, Sep 23, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2017
    Cheers JA. What do you think of starting the yeast at 18c/ 64-65f for the first 3-4 days then letting it rise to 20c/ 68f to get esters. Worth it or too risky? I really don't want to ruin my brew with off-flavours.
     
  11. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    #11 J A, Sep 23, 2017
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2017
    I was having just this discussion with someone in my homebrew club the other day. S-04 doesn't seem to need particularly low fermentation. As long as it's pitched and kept at below 68F, it seems to be pretty happy. It'll go fast and build up a little heat in the wort so a water bath is nice to keep the thermal transfer robust. If you're using a temp-controlled freezer, I'd pitch at 67-68F and hold the chamber temp in the 66-67F range. That being said, your 64-65F will work fine, but I'd plan to let it come up from that pretty quickly after 24 hours (it'll be essentially done in 36 to 48 hours). S-04 doesn't seem to be too temp sensitive (though it can stall if the temp is held low) and you don't have to worry about off flavors. Only "off" flavor I've experienced with S-04 and Maris Otter is a light but distinct apple/cherry fruitiness (not acetaldehyde) that I attribute to the combination of the yeast and the malt - much like you'd get distinct banana from wheat and hefe yeast.
    With the malt bill that you have you should get some bready notes and you can enhance that with a little Victory or Biscuit or just a touch of Special Roast.
     
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  12. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    It won't. Higher mash temperature yields body, decreases fermentability but what you have left in there are dextrines, which are flavorless. Sweetness comes from fermenting at higher temperature, not mashing.
     
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  13. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Well, brew day was last Saturday. Mostly according to plan, but mash was a bit higher than expected and one pot (I'm using two to increase capacity) was pretty loose. Still OG 1.045, bit below target but can't be helped. Pitched 9g of S04 at 68f and its stayed between 64-66f since. Amazing smell for the last few days, now much reduced. Will keep it there for a week and then secondary for a few days. Now, its a waiting game.
     
  14. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I'd skip the secondary unless you really need the primary vessel for another brew. S-04 drops and packs like cement. Even without cold-crash the beer will clear quickly. In another week, you'll be able to keg or bottle if you want. ;)
     
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  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Manipulate your sulfate/chloride ratio down to 1:2. That'll sweeten your beer!
     
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  16. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Been playing around with the water chemistry but struggling to get sulphates into the water. Couldn't get the bottled water I wanted which had sulphates in it. Played around with gypsum and baking soda additions on the calculator, but only got 'too bitter'. So just went for it as is. Could do with some advice with this brew crew.
     
  17. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    the bitter comes from gypsum, the malty comes from Calcium chloride, before you do anything with your water you need a starting point, a definite readout of that water your using
     
  18. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    Cheers Ozarks, that is exactly the simple breakdown I was looking for. I can get both, even here. I've added some water profiles to the system, all bottled spring water. But, there is no chloride figures given on the labels for any of them. Suppose I need to write an e-mail in my horrible, mangled Japanese...
     
  19. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I lived in Germany for a while... I share your pain. I could speak and read well but don't ask me to write....

    You can also do this: Make your beer. Before you bottle it, dose a sample with calcium chloride, not much because you don't want to go over 150 ppm (or may, since you want a sweet beer) chloride. See if that's the effect you want. If so, add a proportional amount to the entire batch. Can you get an analysis of the tap water?
     
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  20. The Green Man

    The Green Man Active Member

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    I got a hold of the water report...boy, there are a lot of squiggly things on there. One of them that I managed to decipher is chloride 12mg a litre. No ions that I can make out. Mostly it seems a safety report though. Still gives me an idea.
     

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