equipment infected.....again!?

[sbaclimber]

What a bummer! My gear is infected again. :cry:

I had the same infection 3 years ago (http://www.brewersfriend.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=904&p=5775&hilit=iodine#p5775). That time around the aroma smelled exactly like iodine. This time I wouldn't nessarily say, "iodine", but definitely very medicinal. The difference is probably only due to the different yeast I am now using (US-05 vs. WLP007). The taste though is exactly the same. It reminds me distinctly of chewing on hemlock bark (yes, I have done it, so yes I know exactly what it tastes like ), very bitter and "tanniny".
The thing that is bugging me (besides having to buy new buckets again), is that I have no idea what type of infection I am dealing with. I am guessing wild yeast, but don't really know. The aroma and flavor definitely mellow after a few weeks in the bottle, but never really completely go away.
Anyone else have any idea what might cause my beer to taste like hemlock bark?

 

[Smash café]

Tannins are extracted from the grain at temps over 76°C. Have you calibrated your thermometer recently? maybe you mashed too hot.

Even if I had an infection I wouldn't throw out my brewing equipment. Clean and sanitize with a few different products diluted to the high end of recommended dosage (don't mix chemicals but clean 2 or 3 times) and you should be good to go.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Ive found just boil water and add it to the fermenter and let it set for an hour or 2 then pour out and wipe then sanitize and put the lid on

 

[Nosybear]

Here's an idea: If the buckets have spigots, take them out and clean everything by soaking in bleach solution. Then reassemble, fill your bucket with bleach solution and let it stand for a day or two. Drain the bleach solution through the spigot, opening and closing it a few times. Then rinse everything thoroughly with warm water two or three times to make sure you have no bleach residue. Anything that survives that deserves to live....

Exception: If you have scratches or other flaws in the surface of the buckets, do throw them away and get new ones.

 

[sbaclimber]

Unfortunately chlorine is not as easy to come by as going to your local grocery store here in Germany.
As I needed at least one of my buckets for brewing today, I just doused everything (spigot, bucket, lid) in rubbing alcohol. Not sure if that will help, but I guess it is worth a shot...
I don't have any scratches in my buckets, I am really careful about only cleaning using plastic utensils and cleaning with a soft sponge, but I think I will just buy new ones anyway. They aren't that expensive and the problem went away immediately the last time after I bought new ones.
Still curious about what the infection could be though. My attenuation is perfectly normal, the beer looks and carbonizes perfectly normal....just smells and tastes weird.

As to mash/sparge temp (re: Smash café), I checked my thermometer, it is calibrated as always. I mash at 67°C (single infustion) and sparge at 73°C.
FWIW, my mash pH is a bit high (5.9), but then again, that is what it always is. (I should probably start using some acid malt anyway though...)

 

[The Brew Mentor]

SBA, I'm wondering if there are changes in your water throughout the year? You may be picking up an odd flavor from that.
I'm surprised you cant get standard bleach there?
Boiling water works well as a sanitizer and is just another way to go about it.
Are you using non-ported buckets?
Brian

 

[sbaclimber]

SBA, I'm wondering if there are changes in your water throughout the year? You may be picking up an odd flavor from that.

There are definitely changes throughout the year, but I can't account for anything that drastic... (most changes are <5mg/l)

I'm surprised you cant get standard bleach there?

Yeah, kinda blew my mind at first as well. "standard" bleach here is the oxygen type. If you want bleach, you have to special order it in small quantities or go to a professional cleaning supplier (one of whom I have private contact to, now that I think about it...). Even the home brew supplier I use only offers acid, caustic or oxygen bleach products.

Are you using non-ported buckets?
Brian

No, they are all ported.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

SBA, I'm wondering if there are changes in your water throughout the year? You may be picking up an odd flavor from that.

There are definitely changes throughout the year, but I can't account for anything that drastic... (most changes are <5mg/l)

I'm surprised you cant get standard bleach there?

Yeah, kinda blew my mind at first as well. "standard" bleach here is the oxygen type. If you want bleach, you have to special order it in small quantities or go to a professional cleaning supplier (one of whom I have private contact to, now that I think about it...). Even the home brew supplier I use only offers acid, caustic or oxygen bleach products.

Are you using non-ported buckets?
Brian

No, they are all ported.

I'd be willing to bet that's a problem. Do you know how to completely disassemble your spigots? What is your process for keeping them sanitary during the fermentation process?

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

best product Ive ever used, kills anything in seconds but needs a thorough rinse to get rid of , because it keeps on working for 24 hours...kills yeast too so rinse well if used

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B001CS ... ge_o01_s02

 

[sbaclimber]

SBA, I'm wondering if there are changes in your water throughout the year? You may be picking up an odd flavor from that.

There are definitely changes throughout the year, but I can't account for anything that drastic... (most changes are <5mg/l)

I'm surprised you cant get standard bleach there?

Yeah, kinda blew my mind at first as well. "standard" bleach here is the oxygen type. If you want bleach, you have to special order it in small quantities or go to a professional cleaning supplier (one of whom I have private contact to, now that I think about it...). Even the home brew supplier I use only offers acid, caustic or oxygen bleach products.

Are you using non-ported buckets?
Brian

No, they are all ported.

I'd be willing to bet that's a problem. Do you know how to completely disassemble your spigots? What is your process for keeping them sanitary during the fermentation process?

I do know how to disassemble them (boiling water to soften them up). I completely disassembled, cleaned every nook and cranny (w/ a brush), boiled and reassembled them before my last brew.....to no avail. Still had the unwanted flavor/aroma.
I will have to admit to no being very good about keeping the outside of the spigot sanitary during the fermentation process though.
Maybe I am wrong about this, but I always kind of assumed that if nothing is leaking out of the spigot, nothing should be able to get in...

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Seems like a nice place for a spider or fruit fly to hang out, not to mention some mold spores!
Sounds like you have the breakdown of the spigots in check, if nothing else, spray them down with sanitizer and cover them with a plastic bag.
Are you using a swamp cooler?
Brian

 

[sbaclimber]

I have only had visible mold once...
Fruit flies and spiders aren't a problem, 'cause I ferment in a fridge (no swamp cooler).

 

[Nosybear]

I'd forgotten chlorine bleach wasn't available in Germany.... Can you get Iodophor? Use the oxygen bleach to clean, then sanitize with the iodine, rinse, then sanitize as normal on brew day.

Anyone making schnapps in your area? I'd think that could put some pretty nasty wild yeast into the air. Did that once. The schnapps was great - plum schnapps - but the stink as that stuff fermented!

 

[sbaclimber]

I'd forgotten chlorine bleach wasn't available in Germany.... Can you get Iodophor? Use the oxygen bleach to clean, then sanitize with the iodine, rinse, then sanitize as normal on brew day.

Anyone making schnapps in your area? I'd think that could put some pretty nasty wild yeast into the air. Did that once. The schnapps was great - plum schnapps - but the stink as that stuff fermented!

I just had a look for Iodophor...didn't find it here, but did find out that I inadvertently lied a bit about getting chlorine bleach. Apparently my supplier does in fact supply a "chlorine based" cleaner: http://www.hobbybrauerversand.de/VWP-Cleaner-400-g_1
Guess I should give it a try.
As for wild yeast and distillers... I am not aware of any distillers in the area, but my downstairs neighbor (4 floors down) does do the occasional "wild yeast" fermented cider, elderberry champagne, and such things.
I think the problem is probably just the fact that I brew in the kitchen with the windows wide open in the summer and it just invites infection. :?

 

[robwild]

I'd forgotten chlorine bleach wasn't available in Germany.... Can you get Iodophor? Use the oxygen bleach to clean, then sanitize with the iodine, rinse, then sanitize as normal on brew day.

Anyone making schnapps in your area? I'd think that could put some pretty nasty wild yeast into the air. Did that once. The schnapps was great - plum schnapps - but the stink as that stuff fermented!

I just had a look for Iodophor...didn't find it here, but did find out that I inadvertently lied a bit about getting chlorine bleach. Apparently my supplier does in fact supply a "chlorine based" cleaner: http://www.hobbybrauerversand.de/VWP-Cleaner-400-g_1
Guess I should give it a try.
As for wild yeast and distillers... I am not aware of any distillers in the area, but my downstairs neighbor (4 floors down) does do the occasional "wild yeast" fermented cider, elderberry champagne, and such things.
I think the problem is probably just the fact that I brew in the kitchen with the windows wide open in the summer and it just invites infection. :?

I have had this trouble with 05 before. Depending on the time of year, starter or not, I would get those off flavors and much longer fermentation times. This is with an IPA I brew mostly. With the same diligent cleaning techniques and process cleaning I used with the 05, I changed yeast brands and that solved my problem. Stranger things happen but I'm convinced, 05 and my domicile don't see eye to eye sometimes. More than likely though it's an estery fluctuation caused by the way I mash. What do I know.

 

[TWS]

Have you changed your tubing? I've been getting the same taste in my last few batches and realized that I've been using the same tubing for a year. In spite of thorough washes in B-brite and soaks in Star-san, the tubing has taken on a yellowish hue. How often should we be changing out the tubing, anyway?

 

[sbaclimber]

Have you changed your tubing? I've been getting the same taste in my last few batches and realized that I've been using the same tubing for a year. In spite of thorough washes in B-brite and soaks in Star-san, the tubing has taken on a yellowish hue. How often should we be changing out the tubing, anyway?

I don't really use any tubing. At least not prior to bottling, and by then the taste is already there.
The discoloration may very well be an indicator though. My primary fermenting bucket and spigot (plastic) is also quite discolored, which is why a new one is on the way.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

If it were me, I'd go to glass or stainless steel. Stainless being the highest preference.
It sounds like something is lingering in your equipment/brew house, and stainless is the easiest to sanitize and will last forever if properly cared for. I'm not saying it has to be an expensive conical, but maybe just a modified pot wit a seal added to the lid.
Brian

 

[sbaclimber]

If it were me, I'd go to glass or stainless steel.

I would love to move to stainless. It is definitely one of a number of areas where I could do more to avoid infection (e.g. cooling wort quicker, boiling full wort volume, etc).
Until I get a "proper" setup, I do at least have one little bit of good news. I just bottled yesterday, and there was no sign of infection!
That means either only one of my buckets was infected, or the dousing of the one I used to ferment in with rubbing alcohol was effective.
Either way, I now have 2 new buckets, and will start looking around for some stainless.

 

[EbonHawk]

A lot of cleaners/sanitizers will discolor tubing. Especially Iodophor, but chlorine bleach and other stuff will definitely turn it over time.

I think I'm going to start keeping a spray bottle onhand to do "spot cleans" like hose ends and spigots, etc, while I'm in the middle of brewing. Anytime the local brewery changes out hoses or opens a valve, the junction(s) get sprayed quite liberally with a sanitizing solution. I think I'll adopt the same practice, just for peace of mind. Haven't really had a problem with contamination, and I brew in some pretty potentially problematic situations from time to time. Mainly, outdoors, where all sorts of stuff is flying around (living and airborne dead stuff), and it's a constant struggle to find something "clean" to sit things like connectors and even stirring spoons and tubing down on for even just a few seconds.