Dry Kolsch yeast?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Hawkbox, Sep 20, 2018.

  1. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I can't seem to find anything that matches up in a non liquid format. Has anyone had good success with any of the dry variants out there?
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    German Ale yeast from Safale/Fermentis, K97, I believe, is a good one.
     
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  3. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    Cool. I was thinking that might be the most likely option but thought it would be worth asking before i go hunt some down. I tried making one with OYL-061 Kveik yeast and I like it but I'm not sure it's "Kolsh" as it were.
     
  4. skyblue67

    skyblue67 New Member

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    I've used K97 with excellent results, mainly due (I think) to pitching and fermenting at 18°C and then bottle conditioning at 10-12°C for 5 weeks.
     
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  5. skyblue67

    skyblue67 New Member

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    Correction: bottle conditioned for 2 weeks at 20°C, then 6 weeks at 12°C. Should always check before posting, my beer memory is not always perfect.
    Here's the recipe https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/512978/subklscher
     
  6. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    If you want really lager-like authenticity from K-97, keep it in the low-mid 50's. Any time I've used it at temps in the low 60's it's been just another "clean" ale yeast. Low-temp fermentation takes a full 3 weeks but it's worth it. As soon as I get my current lager batches out of the chamber, a decocted Kolsch is next on the list. ;)
     
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  7. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    I'm not fond of K97. It's supposed to be a clean Kolsch yeast, but it's very fruity, too fruity really.

    Kolsch beers are general mistaken for a lagers by most when correctly executed, K97 is not very pleasant, strange sometimes One of the best Kolsch yeast is Wyeast 1007. I've won many medals brewing Kolsch's with that yeast. One thing that sets Kolsch/Alt yeast apart is their acid producing ability. They have a tendency to drop the finished beer to pH to 3.9-4.1, which makes the beer pop, but the fruitiness is very subtle. K97 is good for pale ales and IPA's in a pinch, it's fruitiness blends in nicely.

    If I had to choose a dry yeast for a Kolsch, I would use 34/70 and ferment it at 58-62F. It's slightly fruity, but not to the extent of K97, it's the closest you can get to Wyeast 1007 with a dry yeast. But that's just me.
     
  8. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    So no real dry options then.
     
  9. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I don't think "Kviek" and "Kolsch" are the same.... But yes, I've used K97 several times and like the results. The 34/70 warm option should work nicely, too. Oh, ferment the K97 cool!
     
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  10. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say that. Give either the K97 or the 34/70 a try, ferment at around 60 degrees F and both should give good results.
     
  11. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    34/70 is a great yeast for a Kolsch, IMHO.I think it's better as a Kolsch than a lager yeast.
     
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  12. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I was under the impression using 34/70 would effectively end up with a lager. I used the Kveik cause I got it and used it in everything for a couple weeks.

    Fermenting at 60C seems to defeat the purpose of a warm fermenter so until I get a chiller built that's just off the table.
     
  13. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Have you had that experience when it's fermented at lager temps? I don't like the fruitiness of it, either, when it's in the 60+ range and I agree that dry lager yeasts like 34/70 and S23 are better options if you're not fermenting in the low 50's.
    I tried WLP029 German Ale yeast once at ale than desireable temps and it was really, really terrible. Just a yucky banana bomb. Never tried it sense. At lower temps I'm sure it would clean up, too.
     
  14. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    Yeah. I fermented it in the low 50’s. Maybe that’s my mistake. Other people have fermented it at 60 with better results, but it’s still no way near 1007 for being clean. I like K97 in a pale ale, I won a gold for it when I brewed it on a whim. It was really nice.

    Kolsch’s should be lagerish, a cross between a Pilsner and Helles with a touch of fruitiness, very subtle fruitiness. That’s why I think 34/70 is a great Kolsch yeast.
     
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  15. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Agreed! When I look back at my notes I find that my wort temps were hanging right at 59 or 60. I'm remembering the first time I used it and I had no temp control and simply set a dorm fridge at the highest setting it would do. That would have been much cooler than 60 though I don't have records on that particular brew.
     
  16. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    60 F, around 15C. Damned conventional units.
     
  17. The Beerery

    The Beerery Active Member

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    Wayne...?
     
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  18. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I tasted a lot of bad Kolsch's last night at GABF. They range from a dirty pilsner to an underattenuated pale ale. The "real deal" is clean with slight fruitiness, dry (no crystal, please!), light bodied and very easier to drink - a rasenmaeherbier, or a beer designed to be consumed in mass in a cellar with friends watching Fussball. I liked the term "lagerish" above. It's subtle and very easy to get wrong.
     
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  19. The Beerery

    The Beerery Active Member

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    While Kolsch is not my "specialty" its close enough.

    So lets go to the source... What the professional german brewing literature calls for.

    Narziss Says:
    [​IMG]

    Kunze Says:
    [​IMG]

    So here are 3 examples
    95/5 Pils/carahell
    85/15 Pils/vienna
    80/20 vienna/wheat

    Me personally I prefer 95/5 if I am going traditional. But my house Kolsch that is on never-ending rotation is simply 100% Weyermann Cologne malt but I brew that for the masses and not myself.

    Now this next part is not meant to start a debate, but only to explain some things.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]


    So why am I showing you this... Well if you just browse the above it talks about oxygen exclusion from milling though mashing. This is a very big thing for german brewers, this is also what makes ( well not really makes, but keeps) that signature german beer flavor (namely lingering fresh malt flavor and aroma). When oxygen is excluded is also does not make cara malts cloying sweet, it makes them to be beer enhancing without a sickly sweetness.

    So in other words to make a "proper" Kolsch like beer, you have to use the same techniques the source does, for this beer style it includes a low oxygen brew house. That is why SO MANY beers fall flat. A kolsch is basically a helles with a different yeast. That yeast can throw wine, apple or other esters, and thats what screams Kolsch.

    Now, I am not telling you HOW to brew a Kolsch, you are free to do that as you like. I am just giving background on some details of it.

    Here is my house Kolsch.

    [​IMG]

    Close your eyes while you take a sip and you are in Koln.
     
  20. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    Bryan?....
     
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