Doughballs vs clear beer

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by sbaclimber, May 28, 2020.

  1. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    I have a "problem"...
    bubbles.png VS 20190720_184245.jpg
    Same recipe, same malt bill, same equipment, same water, same fermentation temp, same brewhouse efficiency, same lagering temp, same lagering time, same, same same....except!!!
    The malt is from different suppliers!
    Beer #1 is made with pre-milled malt from supplier #1 and always produces the WORST doughballs at mash-in.
    Beer #2 is made with pre-milled malt from supplier #2 and only produces the tiniest of doughballs at mash-in.

    So......question to you all with more experience and knowledge than I.....WHY is the one with doughballs clear and the one without cloudy!? I assume it has something to do with proteins. ;)
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Can't make that assumption: Doughballs would cause lower efficiency but shouldn't affect protein/haze. Different crush? Age of malt, maybe? Storage? Humidity of the malt? I'm reaching for an explanation here.
     
  3. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    I'm assuming that beer is cold. In one you have chill haze, the other you don't. One has more polyphenols or protein than the other. Chill haze is caused by a weak bond between polyphenols and protein, when it's bonded, you can see it. This bond is so weak it breaks when the temperature rises. To check if it's chill haze, allow the hazy beer to warm. If it clears up, it's chill haze. It's not a very big deal at all and rarely causes anything other then the beer not looking polished.

    A very small changed between the two brews would be enough to cause one to have a tad bit more polyphenols than the other. If you want to consistently avoid chill haze, add one tablet of whirlfloc at 5-10 minutes of the end of boil. If you want it really clear, you can add 10-12 grams per 5 gallons of PVPP the same time you add the whirlfloc. PVPP specifically targets polyphenols.
     
  4. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    Any of those are possible. Especially things like age and storage could vary a lot between suppliers without any way of really knowing...
     
  5. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    As I mentioned, temperature is the same....and warming doesn't make any difference.

    I don't really mind the haze, just curious what is causing it.
     
  6. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Warming doesn't get rid of the haze? No off flavors? Then it's a starch haze, likely. Shouldn't be, though, if the hazy one was the finer crush.... If it's permanent haze, that is it doesn't go away with warming, I'm zeroing in on storage between the two suppliers.
     
  7. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    The hazy one is the one w/o the dough balls.....guessing that would be the coarser crush(?)
     
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  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Could be - if it were too coarse some unconverted starch could have gotten through.
     
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  9. Hawkbox

    Hawkbox Well-Known Member

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    I grind my grain with exactly the same setting every time and some come out crystal clear and some come out looking like a swamp. I suspect it's how the grain was processed before it ever got to me, but I can't control for that so I'm not going to stress about it.
     
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  10. sbaclimber

    sbaclimber Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for all your replies. Looks like, short of using finings, I will just have to get my malt from one supplier if I want clear beer and the other if I don't want to deal with dough balls... o_O
     

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