Conversion Efficiency - off the scale

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by AHarper, May 30, 2019.

  1. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    I just completed a brew day and was updating the Brew Session for it and I have a spurious Conversion Efficiency figure that I can not fathom.
    I know I am improving at brewing but this result is a lot better than I was hoping for - I have done something wrong but I have no idea what. I did what I have done before on previous brew Sessions but I can not see where I have gone wrong.
    I have screen shots below showing the details - though there may be relevant values elsewhere.

    How did I get a Conversion Efficiency of 5555.4%?
    I can't proceed with the Efficiency details until I get this bit right.


    upload_2019-5-30_20-42-56.png

    The Mash Calculator values. - I went over this several times to get the correct values and sequence yes I can not get the Conversion Efficiency to change!!!! Odd...

    upload_2019-5-30_20-43-32.png

    The Water Requirements have weird Strike water values - despite me checking them and ensuring that the correct values were entered in the Mash Calculator - This is where the problem stems from I think but I can't see why?

    upload_2019-5-30_20-43-53.png


    Recipe values:

    upload_2019-5-30_20-44-26.png

    I tried playing with the Batch and Boil size AFTER getting the calculation error just to see if it corrected anything but - no.
     
  2. ChicoBrewer

    ChicoBrewer Well-Known Member

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    Hard to say without seeing the volumes and gravities used in the calculations. Need brew step screen shots
     
  3. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing it's in the brew log page. Possibly a number with the decimal point missing.
     
  4. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    I did the whole paper process again and discovered where the problem is - I think...

    The Mash Water Management section seems to DEFAULT to 0.1 kg MASHED GRAIN WEIGHT - even after updating with the CORRECT value - the 0.1 kg mysteriously comes back after any update. This forces the system to multiply the Mash Thickness (in my case 3 l/kg) to produce a Strike Water Volume (in the background and shown in the Brew Steps) of 0.3 Lt. Why I don't know.

    I deleted all Brew Log entries and started again and can show where the system is going wrong.

    Adding a new entry for Efficiency you get a dialog box to enter the data for a MASH COMPLETE record.
    Strangely you now get TWO options for Volume - hinted at below the entry field.

    Expected: a) Strike: 0.3 L or b) Total Mash: 27.3 L (?) Was there always 2 options?

    upload_2019-5-30_23-44-24.png Entering
    the values (as per the brewed session) and Volume of 27.3 Lt.
    we end up with the outrageously high Efficiency value of 6594%

    upload_2019-5-30_23-48-58.png
    Delete the entry and start again with a different value of 0,3 Lt we get the logically sized Efficiency value of 72.5%!!!!!!

    More like what you would expect as an efficiency value BUT THE VOLUME IS HOPELESSLY WRONG!!!!

    upload_2019-5-30_23-52-50.png

    Something is screwed up here but I cant see why.

    The Brew Steps print out reflects this incorrect Volume amount.

    upload_2019-5-30_23-58-16.png

    Over to you developers...


     

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  5. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    I can't figure out why your strike water is showing up at 3L. I'm sure that's the issue- where does that come from? Anywhere else in there?

    I've put in a ticket.
     
  6. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    No I can't figure it out either... I'll keep looking.
     
  7. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    #7 AHarper, May 31, 2019
    Last edited: May 31, 2019
    Hi Lorena,
    I have just done (yet) another go at doing a brew session with the same results.
    I deleted ALL records relating to previous attemps and then...
    Steps:
    1) Created a new Water Mash Chemistry / Calculation
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/mash-chemistry-and-brewing-water-calculator/?id=M3DSS9L

    2)Ensured that a RED X grain entry was in the water calc. (it was mysteriously absent in previous water calculation though there was a space for it in the grains list - number 2 of 4 in the list so the system knew about it at sometime but lost it for some reason - and then updated the water record - see above.

    3)returned to the recipe and updated as required then saved. My reckoning is that ALL values are now correct in the system so time to do a new Brew Session.

    4)Hit the Brew it button to create a new Brew Session.

    5)Went to Mash Calculator and processed the Mash and Sparge amounts - both as expected - and drained each to kettle. So far so good.

    6)Select Water Requirements tab and... et voila!!! This is where the rogue value appears!!!!

    upload_2019-5-31_12-20-17.png

    7)Select Brew Log tab and add an entry - USING THE APPROPRIATE 27.3 ltrs of water used (NOT the a) Option of 0.3)
    upload_2019-5-31_12-32-26.png

    This results in the Efficiency of... 6594%
    upload_2019-5-31_12-34-2.png If you use the suggested value of 0.3 liters then the efficency comes out at

    upload_2019-5-31_12-36-19.png This works - I think - but it is NOT correctly achieved...

    Additionally... all subsequent Log Entries for Brew Day are similarly affected by the wrong Volue of water being referred to... I can no longer use the Brew Log feature...
     
  8. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    That sure is random. You dont have this selected in your equipment profile Harper?
    I brewed 2 days ago and didn't get any outrageous conversion efficiencies.
     
  9. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    No. I just checked the profile as I am setting up my first serious use of Tilt.
    There is nothing in there to produce the 0.3L entry as described above. It has me baffled. I have now rerun the whole process 3 times and that nasty little 0.3L keeps popping up. I am going to log off completely and see what happens.
    You are right - this is random. I have not had this effect before and I have used the Brew Sessions many times.
     
  10. Texas Ale Works

    Texas Ale Works Active Member

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    what platform are you using?
    App, web based?
     
  11. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    This is Web based version.

    I have been looking back at previous Brew Sessions and something started going wrong at about start of March.

    All previous sessions have acceptable Efficiency values and from about March there were some curious results - despite me doing things the same way.... Percentages > 100% I'm getting better at brewing but miracles are above my pay grade...
     
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  12. Texas Ale Works

    Texas Ale Works Active Member

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    getting close to 100% conversion should not be that surprising, it is getting all the sugar into the boil that is the tricky part...
     
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  13. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    Close yes... 184% no.
     
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  14. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Do all the glitches happen to you Harper knowing you you'll track this .3lt bug down.
     
  15. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    Yes it seems like it lol
     
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  16. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    It sort of implies a 100 mL initial mash step in the recipe. Don't expect you've got that though.
     
  17. AHarper

    AHarper Well-Known Member

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    I think I have found the problem.

    It all stems from the DP values from my Inventory not being carried forward when the recipe is built.
    The values are in my Inventory but they are not being picked up when a grain is selected.
    If you select a grain from the Main list the DP value is picked up.
    In my recipe it seems that one of the 100g of grain is considered (probably the acid malt) - hence the 0.3L of sparge required (?).

    upload_2019-6-1_1-2-34.png

    yet Inventory has values...
    upload_2019-6-1_1-4-2.png
    upload_2019-6-1_1-5-4.png

    I think this explains it.

    INVENTORY GRAIN DP VALUES ARE NOT BEING SELECTED.
     
  18. Mase

    Mase Well-Known Member

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    That’s gotta be a relief!

    As Dale Carnegie said (paraphrasing): a problem well defined, is half solved. Off to the Yoopebunch to get it fixed.:D
     
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  19. Yooper

    Yooper Administrator
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    We finally have this fix up on beta, and it looks good to me. I wanted to let you know!
     

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