Consistent Mystery Flavor in Extract Brews

[LindyBrew]

When I first started brewing i of course started with extract brews. One of the things i noticed was this consistent flavor that existed from brew to brew. It's hard to describe but I when I moved to all grain the flavor wasn't present in those brews. I recently helped a friend start brewing and his first brew was an extract brew and lo and behold there it was again that "extract" flavor! Anyone know what the hell that flavor is and how to eliminate it from extract brews?

 

[soccerdad]

Lots of folks call it extract twang.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Yep move.on to the Biab style my friend then every mistake is yours to own and every beer is completely yours.

 

[J A]

I've had full-boil DME/steeped grain beers that were free from it, but anything I've done with LME has had it a little, at least. I've done partial mash recipes where LME, boiled at least 20 minutes, was less than 30 percent of total fermentables and those were fine. I think the worst offender is hopped extract.

 

[Nosybear]

Freshness of the LME is the issue. At room temperature, Maillard reactions are still forming melanoidins and too many melanoidins taste rather like a ball-point pen smells, a rather nasty flavor I've gotten using extended (2 hours plus) boils. Fresh LME makes a good beer. DME is not subject to the reactions - water is necessary. Our LHBS sells lots of extract, theirs is fresh and I've never had issues with it.

 

[Group W]

I have noticed that flavor as well. Not a slam on extract brewing, just a flavor profile.

 

[Mase]

I have noticed that flavor as well. Not a slam on extract brewing, just a flavor profile.

Hmmm.... Ball Point Pen Pilsner!
Sorry.... couldn’t resist.

 

[J A]

Not a slam on extract brewing, just a flavor profile.

It's not a good flavor profile...Like Nosy says, when everything is fresh, it's not much of a problem at all. Kits are the worst because they could sit around for quite a while before being shipped. Ordering kits from a good source that packs ingredients to order may be a better way to go, but unless you can get fresh extract from a good local source, don't bother.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

It's not a good flavor profile...Like Nosy says, when everything is fresh, it's not much of a problem at all. Kits are the worst because they could sit around for quite a while before being shipped. Ordering kits from a good source that packs ingredients to order may be a better way to go, but unless you can get fresh extract from a good local source, don't bother.

I agree. The flavor from extract is sub-par to fresh all grain. But you can make decent beer with extract, but it will be better with fresh grain.

If you think about it, the wort hasn't even cooled down from the mash before it's in the boil kettle. You can't get much fresher than that.

 

[LindyBrew]

Yeah I did the natural progression of extract brewing, then one brew session with BIAB, and then just went all in on some all-grain equipment. The extract method i didn't like the twang but now that you mention the DME method it might be cool to steer my new brewer friend to that. The BIAB for me was just a hassle and that damn grain bag is HEAVY and hot as hell. All grain with a batch sparge is my current method though I've noticed a bit less efficiency with batch spraging vs fly sparging but then again that's just evidence from two brews not 10 or 20 which would give me more data to really count on.

 

[Nosybear]

I agree. The flavor from extract is sub-par to fresh all grain. But you can make decent beer with extract, but it will be better with fresh grain.

If you think about it, the wort hasn't even cooled down from the mash before it's in the boil kettle. You can't get much fresher than that.

Uh, I've won medals with extract brews! It all depends on the freshness. I'd prefer a fresh batch of extract to a badly done all grain mash any day.

 

[Group W]

It’s the knowledge progression that keeps us upping our game, until we discover we have gone full circle.

 

[soccerdad]

I think it's worth remembering that when the eextract was made it was boiled for 60 minutes or more. You can boil it for 15 or 20 minutes and be done. I have never had the twang in a short boil.

 

[Nosybear]

I think it's worth remembering that when the eextract was made it was boiled for 60 minutes or more. You can boil it for 15 or 20 minutes and be done. I have never had the twang in a short boil.

True, the only reason for a long extract boil is hop extraction. It's effectively sanitary when it comes to a boil, even 10 minutes is overkill if the only factor you're concerned with is sterilizing the wort. Now you do need some time for hot break to form into large enough flocs it drops out, likely another reason for the 10 minute minimum.

 

[LindyBrew]

True, the only reason for a long extract boil is hop extraction. It's effectively sanitary when it comes to a boil, even 10 minutes is overkill if the only factor you're concerned with is sterilizing the wort. Now you do need some time for hot break to form into large enough flocs it drops out, likely another reason for the 10 minute minimum.

So your saying I could potentially do a 60 min boil with just hop additions and in the final 15 add the LME and call it a day?

 

[Nosybear]

So your saying I could potentially do a 60 min boil with just hop additions and in the final 15 add the LME and call it a day?

I wouldn't. What you might try is boiling about half of the extract for the full 60 mins, then adding the other half in the final 15, as you say. The hops need some sugar in the boil.

 

[soccerdad]

Some beers rely on flavor and aroma more than a 60 minute buttering charge .. case in point .. This is a good beer with a quick turnaround. I've made it twice and no twang either time .. https://www.homebrewtalk.com/forum/threads/15-minute-cascade-pale-ale.210253/

 

[jeffpn]

I’ve done extract recipes with late addition extract. The reason stated in the recipe is to get the lightest color possible.

 

[J A]

I've made it twice and no twang either time

Perfect example of the sort of extract beer that you wouldn't necessarily be able to tell from all-grain. Only reason I don't do extracts that way is that it's 3-4 times more expensive than mashing grain. I will occasionally do an all-late-addition extract with a short boil just for a quick batch to get a yeast cake built up. I'm never too concerned about a beer like that...it's something to show for the time and ingredients of a yeast starter.

 

[vthokiedsp]

Yeah I did the natural progression of extract brewing, then one brew session with BIAB, and then just went all in on some all-grain equipment. The extract method i didn't like the twang but now that you mention the DME method it might be cool to steer my new brewer friend to that. The BIAB for me was just a hassle and that damn grain bag is HEAVY and hot as hell. All grain with a batch sparge is my current method though I've noticed a bit less efficiency with batch spraging vs fly sparging but then again that's just evidence from two brews not 10 or 20 which would give me more data to really count on.

Pretty much my progression as well. Skipped biab though. Regarding efficiency, i bumped my mash ratio (1.7 from 1.5) to be a liitle more on the watery side and got a little extra efficiency.