Confused by QWR for extract batch

Discussion in 'Recipe Editor' started by Sunfire96, Jan 24, 2022.

  1. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

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    @Pricelessbrewing I need some help here.

    I'm working on a 3 gallon extract batch with a 15 minute boil, 1 oz of boil hops, and 7 oz of steeping grains

    The malt extract will add approx 0.23 gallons of volume, the boil loss is 0.16 gallon, loss from grains 0.04 gallon, and loss from hops 0.04 gallon. I generally leave about 0.13 gallon in the kettle after transferring.

    By my calculations for an ending boil volume of 3.13 gallons I would need to start with 3.14 gallons of water, yet the QWR is telling me to start with 3.56 gallons and the "Add QWR" in the mash section says to start with 3.75 gallons. They are both too high and don't match each other. The preboil volume is calculated at 3.75 which would result in 3.4 gallons in the fermenter.

    Here's my math: 3 + 0.13 + 0.16 + 0.04 + 0.04 - 0.23 = 3.14 water
    The recipe is called Dirty Penster Brown.

    upload_2022-1-24_8-44-17.png
    upload_2022-1-24_8-44-31.png
     
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  2. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing BF Software Manager
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    Thanks for reaching out @Sunfire96,

    Looking at the recipe and the QWR,

    my first warning is the Recipe preboil doesn't match the equipment profile calculations.Remember that QWR now takes the actual recipe parameters into account, so if the recipe boil volumes are off, the QWR will also be off.
    upload_2022-1-26_20-8-7.png

    After correcting that, either manually, or using the handy calc button, things start to line up much better.

    upload_2022-1-26_20-8-46.png

    The difference here vs what you calculated by hand is mostly the 0.023 gallons added from the volume increase from the cane sugar in the recipe late boil addition. The remaining 0.007 is likely just rounding occurring at different stages.
     
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  3. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

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    I didn't input the preboil calc, that was from the "calc" button. But I just went back and hit it again and it changed to 3.3 and the "steeping grains" volume is now 3.3 from the QWR. So that's something :)

    So if the preboil is 3.3 and the extract adds approx. 0.25 gal, why would I steep the grains in 3.3 gal? Shouldn't that volume be lower because the extract will get the volume up to 3.3 before the boil?
     
  4. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing BF Software Manager
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    Ah I see, what likely happened was the preboil volume calculation changed as you added ingredients, since the default preboil without sugar additions or steeping grains would be higher.

    At the moment the calc button is a one off run and update functionality, not a continuous "keep updating boil volumes as I build the recipe". This will come, so at some point this scenario shouldn't happen anymore.

    Have to think about how the ingredient additions are defined in the recipe, and since QWR is sorted in chronological order, you should see that

    the steeping grains are actually being steeped in the recipe at 3.11gal, which is also good for efficiency because otherwise the grains would be absorbing wort with a higher specific gravity meaning some of the potential from the extract would be lost to absorption.

    then you lose a bit to the grain absorption,

    Then you add the extract, resulting in a preboil of 3.3 gal.
     
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  5. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

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    It seems more useful to me to include the 3.11 gal under the Mash Guidlines, not the 3.3. I need to know how much water to add to the pot initially, not how much volume I have once everything is combined.

    Thanks for your help @Pricelessbrewing
     
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  6. Pricelessbrewing

    Pricelessbrewing BF Software Manager
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    You're absolutely right, that's an oversight. Opening a hotfix patch ticket to change the steeping mash step to use this volume from QWR, and not recipe preboil.
    upload_2022-1-27_18-4-16.png
     
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  7. Sunfire96

    Sunfire96 Well-Known Member

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    Sounds great! Thank you so much for all of your help
     
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