Coconut Porter has low pH?

[Donoroto]

Hi all,
This is a recipe I've brewed twice, and both times it came out good. Last time there was a bitter aftertaste that I wanted to reduce, so I cut the IBUs from 34 to 28 by cutting the 30 minute addition in half.


I also started playing with the SO4/CL ratio to bring it from 1.2 to 0.8, in the direction of malty. While doing that I noticed the predicted mash pH was 4.83, quite low. What would I add to the mash to bring the pH up to perhaps 5.2? No matter what i pick - including NaOH - I tend to knock something else (like Na) waaaay out of whack. Thus my thoughts to perhaps just let it be. Should I concern myself about it? Tate (who built the recipe initially) has won awards with it using no salts or other additions, with what is very nearly RO water.

What effects of an overly low pH should be expected?

 

[Sunfire96]

Are you using RO water?

 

[Megary]

Well…Baking Soda and pickling lime will raise mash pH. I’m sure you know that already.

But I find it interesting that your friend’s mash pH isn’t way out of line using RO. Is he mashing his dark grains or cold steeping them?

FWIW, I make a ton of Porters and Stouts and I usually target a mash pH of 5.5-5.6. But that’s easy for me to hit with my well water.

 

[Donoroto]

But I find it interesting that your friend’s mash pH isn’t way out of line using RO

We use the same water, from the tap, which happens to be very low in minerals (see the recipe); thus the RO comment.

Tate has never measured or calculated mash pH; so there is no saying what it might be. Strangely it always turns out as beer.

 

[Megary]

We use the same water, from the tap, which happens to be very low in minerals (see the recipe); thus the RO comment.

Tate has never measured or calculated mash pH; so there is no saying what it might be. Strangely it always turns out as beer.

Interesting recipe for sure. Wish I was your neighbor! I’d love to help you drink some of that.

I have no idea what you’re going to get with a Mash pH that low. But if it works for Tate then no reason not to roll with it, I guess.

Curious, if you pull the Chocolate and Roasted Barley out of the mash, where would your pH fall then? If the pH is a concern, you could always cold-steep the dark grains and just add that cold-steep liquid to the boil. Just a thought.

 

[Sunfire96]

Don I recreated your recipe and think i found your issue. How attached are you to the toasted pale ale malt? When I subbed it with regular 2 row and using RO the mash pH hit 5.5 without any salts added. Could you sub some toasted 2 row with some regular until you hit a magic ratio that gets you your pH with salts?

 

[Mark Farrall]

Hi all,
This is a recipe I've brewed twice, and both times it came out good. Last time there was a bitter aftertaste that I wanted to reduce, so I cut the IBUs from 34 to 28 by cutting the 30 minute addition in half.


I also started playing with the SO4/CL ratio to bring it from 1.2 to 0.8, in the direction of malty. While doing that I noticed the predicted mash pH was 4.83, quite low. What would I add to the mash to bring the pH up to perhaps 5.2? No matter what i pick - including NaOH - I tend to knock something else (like Na) waaaay out of whack. Thus my thoughts to perhaps just let it be. Should I concern myself about it? Tate (who built the recipe initially) has won awards with it using no salts or other additions, with what is very nearly RO water.

What effects of an overly low pH should be expected?

Maybe adjust post or pre boil, rather than for the mash?

 

[GFHomebrew]

I find most brews I use a good chunk of dark grains in they lower the mash pH into the 5.4 is range (not measured BF predicted that is) just nicely.

Baking soda will up the pH Don.

Brulosophy has done a PH exbeeriment on Wether tasters could taste high vs low pH in beer.
Non significant WTF!

 

[Donoroto]

Don I recreated your recipe and think i found your issue. How attached are you to the toasted pale ale malt? When I subbed it with regular 2 row and using RO the mash pH hit 5.5 without any salts added. Could you sub some toasted 2 row with some regular until you hit a magic ratio that gets you your pH with salts?

I can and will. The other malts, I imagine, mostly overwhelm the toast.

Thanks!

 

[Donoroto]

Maybe adjust post or pre boil, rather than for the mash?

I always thought that mash pH was the most important. Am I wrong?

 

[Donoroto]

Baking soda will up the pH Don.

But 20 grams in 25 liters? That is a lot of sodium. And even then the pH is just above 5

Lye (NaOH) is even more effective, but 10 grams ups the sodium to something like 140...

 

[GFHomebrew]

But 20 grams in 25 liters? That is a lot of sodium. And even then the pH is just above 5

Lye (NaOH) is even more effective, but 10 grams ups the sodium to something like 140...

That doesnt add up I don't see how your mash is dropping that low 4.8 you must really be loading up on roasted malts in that one.

Yeah I've used baking soda with great results in past.

 

[Mark Farrall]

I always thought that mash pH was the most important. Am I wrong?

Mash pH is the most important to getting that extra efficiency out of your mash, but depending on your recipe and process may not bet that important to how pH is affecting your drinking. Fermentation tends to push pH to 4.2. The number will change based on where it started, but if you're in that 5.6 - 5.2 pH for mashing, you'll probably find you're closer to low 4 for pH after fermentation. Additions after fermentation can also change pH. Dry hopping tends to increase pH, fruit tends to drop it.

Some brewers will adjust pH pre boil, post boil or pre package depending on what they're trying to achieve.

I was suggesting pre/post boil as it's easier from a contamination point of view. If you really want to target drinking pH adjusting pre packaging is probably the best spot. I've been meaning to play around with this, but just haven't wanted the extra effort recently.

Or there's the Toyota just in time supply approach, of adjusting in the glass, if you really want to increase the stuffing around.

 

[Minbari]

I have gone with caoh (picking lime) in dark beers. Baking soda contributes a sulfate ion (per palmers) which can add a more bitter note.
Also caoh is allot higher ph, you will need less to move the needle

 

[Donoroto]

I have gone with caoh (picking lime) in dark beers. Baking soda contributes a sulfate ion (per palmers) which can add a more bitter note.
Also caoh is allot higher ph, you will need less to move the needle

Good info. I might use NaOH, food-grade lye (Also good for making pretzels) as that is quite basic as well.

Most likely I'm just going to brew it and not worry about pH. If @Mark Farrall says it doesn't affect much more than conversion efficiency, then that about seals it.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Baking soda contributes a sulfate ion (per palmers) which can add a more bitter note.

This adds sodium, which can round out a beer. Think malty. To much and the beer becomes saline. I believe the limit for sodium was @ 75ppm, but I'm not 100% on that.

Mash pH is the most important to getting that extra efficiency out of your mash

This is true as long as the pH doesn't go below 4.9. After that the conversion falls like a rock. I wouldn't put to much confidence in mash calculators, just brew the beer and see what happens. I have used baking soda before and it does raise pH really well, just be careful not to use too much. If your pH is above 4.9-5.0 you'll be fine.

 

[The Brew Mentor]

Another option would be to run the mash without the dark grains for the 1st 1/2 of the mash, then stir in the dark grains.
You'll get a buffering affect in the mash and then the introduction of the dark should still keep you reasonable.
Check as you go and take notes.
DWHAHB

 

[Donoroto]

Another option would be to run the mash without the dark grains for the 1st 1/2 of the mash, then stir in the dark grains.
You'll get a buffering affect in the mash and then the introduction of the dark should still keep you reasonable.
Check as you go and take notes.
DWHAHB

That's a good idea. In the big picture, the question is more academic than practical: Brew it and beer will occur. That's exactly what happened in this case.

From a vantage point several weeks after the keg was emptied, the beer came out good. A slightly higher bitterness was noticed, particularly as an aftertaste. Good mouthfeel, lower head retention and lacing. I have a quart left, 'aging' in the fridge, I'll try it later this year to see how it does.