Citrusy off flavor?

[Suga]

I've had 2 brews now that have developed a citrus like off flavor. One was a cream ale and it doesn't really ruin it, just not the profile it should have been.
The second one was more beer B3Stout and totally ruined it. Had to pour out just not even remotely tolerable.
Odd thing is prior to bottling both of these seemed to be just right. Especially the stout. I was excited it had nice coffee and slightly chocolate flavor while drinking and then a nice lingering chocolate at the end. Bottled it and 21 days later blah.
Same with the cream ale tasted pretty much the way i wanted day of bottling.

As for cleaning my bottles i soak in oxyclean free , use a bottle brush then rinse.
Could it be something in the fermentor ?
Ib pretty much do the same cleaning with it. Only i also use Star San. Generally with light rinse as ib thought starsan was no rinse.

 

[Megary]

Are you sanitizing the bottles? They need a StarSan soak right before bottling.

 

[Craigerrr]

I can't speak to a citrus off flavor. I have a question though, are transferring to a bottling bucket?

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

What strain of yeast? What temperature was it pitch at? What temperature was it fermented at? What type of hop did you brew with?

All these parts play a role in citrus flavors. The question are then, was it the yeast? The way the yeast was handled? Was it a type of hop that kicks out citrus? Is it an infection? Could it be another off flavor you perceive as citrus? Have you had another beer “nerd” ( for lack of a better word) taste it. I found that I taste things differently than other people and I end up chasing the wrong solution for a problem I don’t have.

 

[Group W]

What he said^^
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

 

[Suga]

I can't speak to a citrus off flavor. I have a question though, are transferring to a bottling bucket?

Yes using bottling bucket, generally give that a quick star san spray down

 

[Suga]

What strain of yeast? What temperature was it pitch at? What temperature was it fermented at? What type of hop did you brew with?

All these parts play a role in citrus flavors. The question are then, was it the yeast? The way the yeast was handled? Was it a type of hop that kicks out citrus? Is it an infection? Could it be another off flavor you perceive as citrus? Have you had another beer “nerd” ( for lack of a better word) taste it. I found that I taste things differently than other people and I end up chasing the wrong solution for a problem I don’t have.

Yeah i know what you mean, but given it's two complete different styles, different Yet 5

What strain of yeast? What temperature was it pitch at? What temperature was it fermented at? What type of hop did you brew with?

All these parts play a role in citrus flavors. The question are then, was it the yeast? The way the yeast was handled? Was it a type of hop that kicks out citrus? Is it an infection? Could it be another off flavor you perceive as citrus? Have you had another beer “nerd” ( for lack of a better word) taste it. I found that I taste things differently than other people and I end up chasing the wrong solution for a problem I don’t have.

I'm trying to find common between two different styles, different Yeast, hops etc. Stout used best of both worlds yeast, cream ale used Nottingham. Different temps on mash both fermented between 68-72. Wondering about infection/contamination. And to be clear this is not a subtle flavor its very pronounced pretty much over powered everything in the stout.

 

[Suga]

What he said^^
http://howtobrew.com/book/section-4/is-my-beer-ruined/common-off-flavors

I looked at that, couldn't find a fit for the flavor

 

[Craigerrr]

Yes using bottling bucket, generally give that a quick star san spray down

Are these your last two batches? Maybe the bucket, and or the spigot need a deep clean?

 

[Suga]

Are these your last two batches? Maybe the bucket, and or the spigot need a deep clean?

No, I've done 2 others since these. They seem ok. But i partially kegged the last one. And the other one I'll taste tomorrow.... But it's single hop lemondropped based so not sure I'll be able to notice anything.

 

[Suga]

I have gone ahead and deep cleaned the bucket couple times and i threw out and replaced the fermentor. At this point trying to get clues to possible cause So i be sure to watch for it.

 

[J A]

"Citrus" might stand in for "sour" as in lactobacillus infection. Probably the most common off flavor. If you get it in a plastic bucket or spigot seal or threads, it'll just keep showing up. Definitely have to Star-San your bottles and caps. One way of telling if you've got some sour fermentation going on is that the bottles will develop a sort of slimy krausen ring at the top of the beer. If you're seeing that in any bottles, get rid of every bucket you have and start fresh.

 

[Yooper]

Nottingham gets weirdly fruity and almost foul at above about 65 degrees F- that could be a huge part of the off flavor. To use it in a cream ale, I'd keep it no higher than 62F (fermentation temperature, not room temperature).

I don't know about best of both world's yeast- however fermenting any ale yeast at 70 degrees can give a definite fruity flavor.

Also, remember that if the room temperature was 72F, the fermenting beer could have easily reached 80 degrees or more. I've personally seen that happen, and your post wasn't clear if that was measured beer temperature or room temperature so I wanted to throw that in there as a possibility.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I second that Nottingham gets weird, a lot of people complain about a tart finish in the beer. The funny thing about that is the pH is completely in line.

 

[Suga]

Nottingham gets weirdly fruity and almost foul at above about 65 degrees F- that could be a huge part of the off flavor. To use it in a cream ale, I'd keep it no higher than 62F (fermentation temperature, not room temperature).

I don't know about best of both world's yeast- however fermenting any ale yeast at 70 degrees can give a definite fruity flavor.

Also, remember that if the room temperature was 72F, the fermenting beer could have easily reached 80 degrees or more. I've personally seen that happen, and your post wasn't clear if that was measured beer temperature or room temperature so I wanted to throw that in there as a possibility.

It was room temp, and it but i have AC kicks in at 70 (i like a constant 68 at home)
But what i just realized likely culprit is Propper starter. I used it for both my starters. (I did do starter for Nottingham as i wanted to split it and use for next batch. Second half is in fridge think I'll toss it) IdI like they way it looked when i poured it out of the can. Bet it was off somehow.

 

[Craigerrr]

I have been casting a suspicious eye at canned starter wort, I feel like it must be the alphagetti of brewing...

 

[Nosybear]

I've used it once, can';t say I had any particularly bad results from it but it is an expensive way to make a starter.

 

[Nosybear]

I'm having a difficult time imagining "citrussy" as an off flavor when so many IPA brewers crave them. Can you be a bit more specific about what you mean? Orange? Lemon? Tangerine? Grapefruit? Those are all more characteristic of hops than bacteria.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

I have been casting a suspicious eye at canned starter wort, I feel like it must be the alphagetti of brewing...

I made my own a month or so back. I made a 1.080 wort and canned it. I add the same amount of bottle water as wort and end up with a 1.036-40 wort. The canning part sucked, but the starters are made in minutes. That part is nice.

 

[Suga]

I'm having a difficult time imagining "citrussy" as an off flavor when so many IPA brewers crave them. Can you be a bit more specific about what you mean? Orange? Lemon? Tangerine? Grapefruit? Those are all more characteristic of hops than bacteria.

Well honestly not sure like a cross between grapefruit and lemon. And most definitely an off flavor for stout/porter. And exactly same unexpected flavor in cream ale.
Not saying that canned wort starter in general is bad think maybe the last two i used were bad. They didn't seem to mix well and had lumppy material ( i assumed dme )
And as someone said earlier i may just be experiencing this flavor differently then others all i can think to liken it to is citrus. But not a direct fruit flavor. I read thru the off flavor chart multiple times hoping to identify it but honestly nothing really seems to match.
I remember early on when i started brewing late 2018 reading something about fusal alcohol but cant seem to find it. And if i remember correctly that would come from too high temp fermentation?