Blood Orange Milkshake Ipa

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by miggy_smalls, May 22, 2018.

  1. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    Im trying to brew a a hazy think Milkshake/smoothie ipa with a similar body to "the Brewing Projekt's Resist" if anyone has had that in the northwest part of WI near the twin cities. Its very a thick like beer. Almost like the ten-fidy version of a NEIPA (if that makes sense). I am going off of a recipe i brewed before. It was a Strawberry Milkshake IPA but it wasn't as thick and heavy bodied as I'm shooting for. So I've tried to bulk up the oats and added some flaked wheat as well to try and thicken it up. Let me know if this recipe will be good as its my first to start adding and changing malts and hops. Any and all feedback is appreciated. this is all still new to me in the recipe design world.

    HOME BREW RECIPE:
    Title: Blood Orange Milkshake IPA


    Brew Method: All Grain
    Style Name: American IPA
    Boil Time: 60 min
    Batch Size: 1.5 gallons (fermentor volume)
    Boil Size: 2.4 gallons
    Boil Gravity: 1.048
    Efficiency: 66% (brew house)


    STATS:
    Original Gravity: 1.077
    Final Gravity: 1.021
    ABV (standard): 7.36%
    IBU (tinseth): 61.08
    SRM (morey): 7.48

    FERMENTABLES:
    2.25 lb - American - Pale 2-Row (45.3%)
    0.6 lb - American - Wheat (12.1%)
    0.75 lb - Flaked Oats (15.1%)
    0.6 lb - United Kingdom - Oat Malt (12.1%)
    0.27 lb - Canadian - Honey Malt (5.4%)
    0.5 lb - Flaked Wheat (10.1%)

    HOPS:
    0.5 oz - Amarillo, Type: Pellet, AA: 8.6, Use: Boil for 15 min, IBU: 27.52
    0.45 oz - 007: Golden hop, Type: Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 170 °F, IBU: 10.79
    0.75 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 170 °F, IBU: 16.48
    0.45 oz - Experimental Tangerine, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Whirlpool for 15 min at 170 °F, IBU: 6.29
    0.6 oz - 007: Golden hop, Type: Pellet, AA: 12, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
    0.6 oz - Citra, Type: Pellet, AA: 11, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days
    0.6 oz - Experimental Tangerine, Type: Pellet, AA: 7, Use: Dry Hop for 4 days

    MASH GUIDELINES:
    1) Temperature, Temp: 166 F, Time: 60 min, Amount: 1.86 gal, Strike Water
    2) Sparge, Temp: 170 F, Time: 15 min, Amount: 1.2 gal, Sparge water
    Starting Mash Thickness: 1.5 qt/lb

    OTHER INGREDIENTS:
    2 g - gypsum, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
    1 g - table salt, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
    3.25 g - calcium chloride, Time: 0 min, Type: Water Agt, Use: Mash
    0.17 tsp - yeast nutrient, Time: 15 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil
    0.67 each - vanilla bean, Time: 10080 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Secondary
    1.5 lb - blood orange, Time: 10080 min, Type: Flavor, Use: Secondary
    1 ml - lactic acid, Time: 0 min, Type: Other, Use: Mash
    0.33 lb - lactose , Time: 15 min, Type: Other, Use: Boil

    YEAST:
    Wyeast - London Ale III 1318
    Starter: No
    Form: Liquid
    Attenuation (avg): 73%
    Flocculation: High
    Optimum Temp: 64 - 74 F
    Fermentation Temp: 68 F
    Pitch Rate: 0.75 (M cells / ml / deg P)

    PRIMING:
    Method: force carb
    CO2 Level: 2.4 Volumes

    TARGET WATER PROFILE:
    Profile Name: NEIPA
    Ca2: 100
    Mg2: 0
    Na: 0
    Cl: 175
    SO4: 90
    HCO3: 0
    Water Notes:
    reverse osmosis water
     
  2. KC

    KC Active Member

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    I guess the 166 mash temp explains the 66% efficiency. Have you done it that way before? I would think you'd need a 2+ hour mash to get enough soluble sugars for the body you want. Amylase activity is very low over 162 if any at all. Unconverted starches will eventually drop out.
     
  3. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    A lot of these milkshake NEIPA styles are adding lactose to help with all that creamyness.
     
  4. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    I'm still pretty new to this but I havent been able to hit my numbers spot on, so I've reduced my efficiency to try and help that. Shooting for somewhere around 65-70%. Is this bad practice? What temps should I be mashing at instead? I've always just mashed in and shot for around 152-155 degrees and mashed for around an hour or so. Then collect my first runnings and sparge with higher temp water. let it sit for around 10-15 minutes then collect my remaining runnings. Check pre-boil and I'm usually pretty close (within 5 points). Then proceed from there.
     
  5. KC

    KC Active Member

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    Most mashes are in the 150-156 range where two enzymes are active. The low end favors the enzyme that leaves a dry finish, and the high end favors the enzyme that leaves a fuller body. Above 162 neither enzyme is very active and at 170 they're both turned off.

    If you're shooting for extreme body then you can target 160-162 and let it chew for 75-90 minutes. Yeast won't be able to eat a lot of it and attenuation will be low. I've done that with a barleywine but I had specialty malt designed for high mash temps.

    Efficiency may be your grain crush or chlorinated water. Lactic acid in the mash means pH is probably okay.
     
  6. Vallka

    Vallka Well-Known Member

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    I use .5lb lactose sugar(milk sugar) in my NEIPA and it dose wonders for mouthfeel and creamyness!
     
    thunderwagn likes this.
  7. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    Ok thank you. Ive read a little bit about step mashes but never done one. Do you think that would be necessary to get all the sugars at the low end and high end temps or is it not going to be what I'm going for? You say the yeast wont eat it so will that mean my ABV will be low then?

    I actually did a Imperial stout as my last batch and adjusted the grain crush to be finer and it definitely helped my hit my numbers much closer this time. I use reverse osmosis water 90% of the time or I put campden tablets in my tap water.
     
  8. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    I used lactose in my last recipe. It was a strawberry milkshake IPA and it helped but it was nowhere near the thick creaminess that i had with a few other commercial ones ive tried. I supposed i could bump up the lactose in it and try the higher mash temps like KC said.
     
  9. KC

    KC Active Member

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    I prefer step mashes myself, but I don't feel like it helps you here. With a high temp single step infusion, you'll get a large proportion of non-fermentable sugars. Your goal with this beer is to end up with as many nonfermentable sugars as possible (that's the purpose of the lactose). If you allow too much activity in the lower beta range, it works against you. But 166 is probably too hot, that's my original observation.

    With all those non-fermentable sugars, your ABV will be lower than the default calculation. Not by a whole lot. I'm thinking in the range of 75% with an aggressive yeast like Nottingham. You're using 1318 which may go closer to 65%. These numbers would be problematic in a normal beer. But milkshake/smoothie texture is not a normal beer so it's okay to bend the rules a little.
     
  10. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    Sorry that was my strike water temp for getting the grains to level off at 152. I willa djust to have a temp of around 160. I suppose its a bit confusing when i copy and paste from the recipe builder lol


    Sounds good. Thanks for the great tips and knowledge. In terms of everything else does the recipe seem good? Balanced and such?
     
  11. KC

    KC Active Member

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    I've had blood orange beer before and enjoyed it. Like cara cara, it's a lot less acidic than Navel and Valencia, and adds that wonderful sinister color.

    This is the kind of recipe that will take some tinkering. You have a lot of different citrus flavors going on. They may compliment or they may drown out the real orange. For the most part, the core and the process seem sound.

    The malted and unmalted wheat and oat are unusual together but you'll probably get what you want from them. I don't think you gain much from the honey malt. If you really want a thick pour, my first thought was rye.

    I'm most interested in how you're timing the 10,000 minute additions
     
  12. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    Yeah i was trying to pick hops that had distinct orange flavors and those were some of the suggestions. I might dial back citra a bit.

    I used the base recipe from my strawberry milkshake ipa that I found on here then added the flaked wheat because i read that flaked oats and wheat create that body and haze. But you think rye would give it that thicknes? Do you think the rye would lend some of that spicy flavor to it?

    You know i didnt even notice that when i posted it. Those are supposed to be "dry hopped" at about 7 days before kegging. But i might adjust that. I might actually adjust my dry hopping schedule and break it down to to a double dry hop with less hops each time and then add the orange and vanilla at about 4 days before kegging.
     
  13. KC

    KC Active Member

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    Beers with a lot of rye pour heavy, almost like syrup. It does add spice and that's the one reason I'd hesitate from trying it first

    Orange has fermentable sugars so you want to leave enough time for that to finish. I like adding feature fruit last to preserve its character. If you do it after the dry hop, I would rack off the hop trub onto the orange. Otherwise you have less control over the dry hop exposure.

    To develop the dry hop schedule you can sample after 3 days and determine if it can handle more.
     
  14. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    Awesome! Thanks again for all the help. Hoping to brew this weekend. I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  15. KC

    KC Active Member

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    Good luck, I really like unique recipes like this. You know exactly what you want to achieve and are approaching it with well-planned processes.
     
  16. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    no one has mentioned this yet, I'd be weary of mixing fresh citrus and lactose, I've always known that to be a general no-no when mixing ingredients. I could be wrong and it could be good, idk. personally I'd let the hops do all the talking for citrus flavors, or try a different fruit if you really want real fruit in the beer.
     
  17. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    hmm thats a good point. I couldnt find any blood oranges so i decided to make an extract using both navel and ruby red grapefruit zest sanitizing in vodka. My plan is to dry hop in about 3-4 days(pending fermentation has settled down) for the second round of dry hopping and add the vanilla. Taste after its been a total of 2 weeks fermented. If there isnt enough orange-citrus flavor then possible add the citrus extract.

    as a sidenote the brew day went well and I damn near hit all my numbers. so that was cool.
     
  18. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    There was another thread about a sour orange creamsicle ale that had a lb of lactose and something like 6 oz of orange zest. He seemed to think it turned out very well. I'll be trying it for the brew after the next one
     
  19. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    #19 miggy_smalls, Jun 18, 2018
    Last edited: Jun 18, 2018
    well had the sampling of this beer and the verdict is in. Its both a success and a small disappointment.

    The Pros:
    • Great Flavor with tons of orangy citrus notes.
    • Good thick body.
    • Not boozy for 7.7%
    • Good head retention
    The cons:
    • Not enough vanilla coming through
    • could have been thicker
    • color was a little darker than id have thought
    • looked clearer for a hazy style
    Now a little background on the pitfalls of this brews. As i stated before i couldnt find any blood oranges so i improvised with a naval orange and ruby red grapefruit zest extract. So the blood orange didnt happen in this beer. I may have added the vanilla too soon in this beer and the flavor and smell might have fermented out. I added more at kegging from a store bought extract which might have added to the darkening of the beer but it still doesnt seem to come out therefore I dont think I'd call this beer a milkshake. I wonder if i added too much yeast which might have chewed up more sugars than i wanted not making it as thick as i want or if I should have added more lactose.

    Overall this beer is still damn good and everyone who tried it really enjoyed it. Said it was one of the best ones Ive done so far. So that s a success for me and next time ill try more vanilla. Thanks again everyone for the help and advice on making this beer.
     

    Attached Files:

  20. miggy_smalls

    miggy_smalls New Member

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    So perhaps i jumped the gun and got too excited. My beer seems to have turned and Im not sure why. So after trying the beer out the next day i tried to add more vanilla directly to my glass to see if maybe i should add more vanilla extract tot he keg. It was a little strong and boozy at first with the vanilla being a bit strong but as i let it sit and warm a little it was better. I didnt add any more vanilla to the keg and thought I'd just see how it is in a few days. Well 2 days later i had a buddy try it and he said it had a strong taste to it. Almost like permanent marker flavor and seemed pretty boozy. I thought maybe it was just that its a little higher in abv coming in around 7% so I sort of dismissed it. I went to sample it again a couple days later and sure enough it seemed to have that strong smell and taste similar to a permanent marker or almost rubbing alcohol like.
    Any idea how this could have happened? It tasted so good the first try and then it seems to have gone downhill.

    At this point i'm going to use it to experiment with and see what things i can do to post carbonated beer haha.
     

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