Black saison

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Mark Farrall, Nov 24, 2018.

  1. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    I used to think black saison was a stupid idea, but now that I've had a few that are really good (and some that are not) I want to do one myself. The beer I want to brew is one that's going to stand up to those slow cooked asian pork roasts. Think of something with a bit of chilli burn and heaps of sweet dark soy flavours.

    So I'm not looking to match, i'm looking to contrast. Something dry and refreshing, but with some flavour (otherwise I'd just buy one of the endless asian rice lagers). And that's where I"m thinking the yeast flavour from the saison yeast, a touch of roast flavour from the other malts. And finally some interesting spices in the beer as well, probably a tincture based around a Chinese five spice mix. Things like star anise, cinnamon, nutmeg, cloves, etc. added to taste at bottling.

    Here's a first draft - https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/737458/a-mirror-darkly

    My current question is whether the chocolate is enough to give that touch of roast flavour. Normally I'm heavy handed with the roasted malts, so may have overcompensated by not adding enough.

    Other than that any other thoughts are welcome.
     
  2. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    the chocolate does not add very much roast at all, it will add a nice creamy texture and head, other than the spices it will be a very smooth beer, I like it ;)
     
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  3. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    Agree with OMB, you should be able to SPICE that up just fine.
    Don't over carbonate. That would mask what you have going.
     
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  4. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Interesting idea. I'd say that 13% dark roast and an SRM of 40, you haven't skimped on the roasted malts. ;)
     
  5. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I used 100g of the same Simpsons Chocolate malt in the Altbier I did recently and no not overly roasty but it's there slightly. At 200g you should know it's there is my 2c.
     
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  6. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    The black saisons I’ve enjoyed had a very mild roast character similar to a schwarzbier. I personally would nix the chocolate malt and use enough midnight wheat and/or carafa to get the color where you want it. Just my two cents though.
     
  7. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Agree^^^^ Think Schwarzbier. You aren't trying for a roasty beer - the roast bitterness and the hop bitterness clash. You're coloring the beer, perhaps giving it a bit of flavor. Carafa or Midnight Wheat seem to be the ways to go to me, maybe debittered black. The entire point of a saison is to let the fermentation character rule so why drown it out with some dark malts?
     
  8. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Does the midnight wheat give any roast flavour, or just colour? If it does, caraffa for chocolate or no chocolate makes sense to me.
     
  9. Head First

    Head First Well-Known Member

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    I made a wheat beer with it a while back and had a friend do a blind test. He is not a fan of roasted malts. Without knowing it was a dark beer. .75#s of it was noticed, but it was barely noticed. It was a wheat beer with light hops white wheat and 2row. Chocolate malt and spices should make it unnoticeable. Not a scientific study but midnight wheat is suppose to be a color malt.
     
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  10. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Halved the chocolate.
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Carafa has a nice mellow chocolate flavor if you use enough of it. Midnight Wheat has even less flavor. Both can be overdone and give an ashy taste.
     
  12. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    Finally got this brewed and conditioned. I think it's going to end up being a great beer. Malt bill is perfect so thanks all for your suggestions.

    Next batch I'm going to have to fiddle with the five spice mix. Bring it down in intensity and really drop the cloves. I now know that cloves really dominate.
     

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