Black IPA

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Craigerrr, Oct 29, 2018.

  1. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Hey Guys
    I poached this recipe from AnteK, and would like to make this my next brew.
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/723308/back-in-black-ipa

    1) I changed the yeast from WLP001 as my LHBS's don't currently have this strain.
    2) I searched water profiles for black IPA's, is this a solid profile
    3) There is a note about adding the black malt in the last 40 minutes of the mash, is this necessary
    4) Should the turbinado go in at the end of the boil?
    Thanks in advance,
    Craigerr
     
  2. BOB357

    BOB357 Well-Known Member

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    1. My biggest concern with using an English Ale yeast would be early flocculation and possible under attenuation. Any ester production would likely be hidden by the roastiness and hops.
    2. Just my personal preference, but I use a hoppy pale ale water profile for all of my IPAs, regardless of color.
    3. Adding acetic malts late in the mash or capping with them reduces their harshness and keeps them from having much effect on mash pH.
    4. Again a matter of preference but I generally add simple sugars late in the boil, so just enough time to sterilize them.

    Looks like a solid recipe.
     
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  3. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    I'd even think about capping with it. You don't want roast flavors in a black ipa, 40 minutes seems like you'd get a lot of it
    And I'd put the sugar in late too
     
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  4. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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  5. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    use Belgian Candi Syrup D-180 or 240 if you can get your hands on it. Add it right after the mash, adds all the black color you need without messing with mash pH and doesn't add any astringency whatsoever. Bumps your gravity and dries out your beer a little.
     
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  6. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, what is capping?
     
  7. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    It's not a stout. Kill a lot of the roast and sub some dark caramel or candisugar. It doesn't have to be black to fit the style, either. Just big, dark, hoppy with a hint of roast, preferably chocolate/coffee-level and not burnt.
     
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  8. thunderwagn

    thunderwagn Well-Known Member

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    I'm in the "add the black malt at vorlauf" camp myself. It'll give you the color you want without all the unwanted side effects.
     
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  9. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    Basically mash as normal. Put the darker malts in maybe with 5 minutes or so left. Stir a little bit, then pull the bag up like normal. Sparge if that's what you do
     
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  10. Hogarthe

    Hogarthe Well-Known Member

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    I would use carafa special instead of regular carafa. It is the de husked version, all the color but less harsh bitter burnt flavor.
     
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  11. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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  12. jmcnamara

    jmcnamara Well-Known Member

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    Might want to change the notes section since you won't be adding the dark malt at 40 mins.
    Other than that, brew on with your shoes on
     
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  13. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, will do.

    Thanks to all!
     
  14. Craigerrr

    Craigerrr Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, one more question.

    Are my water additions okay?
     
  15. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Ditto that. I'd use something like US-05, the same strain if I remember correctly, just in dried form. Use the hoppy profile but be careful of low mash pH - may need some bicarbonate or hydroxide - I prefer the latter - to cut the roasted malt acidity. Agree on capping, in fact, if you batch sparge, you can wait until then and add your dark malt at vorlauf. And finally the simple sugars - I tend to add them at or just after high krauesen. My reason is the yeast's preference for sugars. Turbinado is unrefined sucrose, yeast prefer that to any other sugar, can gorge themselves on it and not finish the maltose. Make a thin syrup, boil it a few minutes to sterilize it, add it at or after high krauesen to keep your yeast from being lazy.

    And good luck with it.
     
  16. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Only thing left to address is the oats. Again, it's not a stout. IPA's are usually more crisp in body and the whole idea is that they show off the hops. Complex malt flavors complimenting big hops and ending with a clean finish are what the style is about.
    I have a recipe that's won a couple of competitions and I use about 3.5% oats. That seems like plenty.
     
  17. Mark Farrall

    Mark Farrall Well-Known Member

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    So I disagree with most of what's been recommended here. Not that they're wrong, just that to me a black IPA is a beer where the hops are the hero and the roasted malts are a strong supporting actor. I think of a stout as having the malts as the hero and the hops are a plot device to keep it on track.. So, for me, the BJCP style for this one is insane. If you want an IPA with no roast flavour, don't add roasted malts. If you can't tell the difference with your eyes closed then it's just a cosmetic trick. If...

    Ok, so taking a breath and stepping off my soapbox...

    I leave the roast malts in for the whole mash so I can taste them. But having recently participated in a homebrew experiment where someone brewed the same beer using this approach it defintely made a difference. The one I was involved in steeped the grains at a lower temperature seperately and then added that to the kettel while it was coming to the boil. Definitely had les roast flavours, though, of course, I see this approach as evil. :p

    I've tried both English and neutral yeasts for black IPAs, I prefer the neutral ones. With the english yeasts I get a little bit of caramel malt flavour, mild esters and dulled hop flavour.

    For the water profile I go with balanced, but add in some flaked oats to give a bit of smoothness as I add in quite a lot of hops (60 minutes, a bunch steeped at flameout and two dry hops). Yours is possibly a bit heavy on the gypsum, especially with the relatively netureal lager yeast (depend on how cold you ferment).

    I'd characterise the recipe you've got as one of the US black IPAs with a firm nod to the UK traditions, like Wookie Jack. Many people love them. So the sugar makes sense as it would dry it out a bit. Personally I keep the malts lean, base malts raost malts, but light on the crystal and cara malts.

    Hope this came across as a bit of a joke, I've just added these in case you weren't really after a black IPA done to style. They're not right or wrong, just an atternative view. The black IPA I make won't ever go into a comp, it's just something me and my mates enjoy drinking (and virtually everyone of them is drawn to roasted flavours so it's a big hit).

    Also this isn't a go at the BJCP guidelines. They're a wonderful resource and I don't see how homebrew comps would work without them.
     
  18. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I think a lot of brewers have an American Stout in mind when they start out to brew a Black IPA. It's perfectly fine to brew any beer that suits your tastes but when someone asks for help with a particular style, I tend to reference the style guidelines to offer advice. For communicating about beers I think it's a useful common language. :)

    As a point of reference and comparison here's a description and stats for Black IPA:
    Style Comparison:
    Balance and overall impression of an American or Double IPA with restrained roast similar to the type found in Schwarzbiers. Not as roasty
    -burnt as American stouts and porters, and with less body and increased smoothness and drinkability.
    Vital Statistics:
    OG: 1.055 – 1.085
    IBUs: 50 – 90
    FG: 1.010 – 1.018
    SRM: 25 – 40
    ABV: 5.5 – 9.0%

    And for an American Stout:
    Style Comparison: Like a hoppy, bitter, strongly roasted Extra or Export Stout. Much more roast and body than a Black IPA. Bigger, stronger versions belong in the Russian Imperial Stout style. Stronger and more assertive, particularly in the dark malt/grain additions and hop character, than American Porter.
    Vital Statistics:
    OG: 1.050 – 1.075
    IBUs: 35 – 75
    FG: 1.010 – 1.022
    SRM: 30 – 40
    ABV: 5.0 – 7.0%

    I'd speculate that probably 80% of beers brewed to either style could be entered into a competition under both categories.

    And as a personal preference, I tend to like restrained but definitely present roast and big piney hops. Mark Farrall is absolutely on point in saying that if there's no roast at all, it just ain't right. For me, big malt with dark caramel/dark fruit notes and a definite chocolate/coffee flavor with just a hint of burnt roast to support everything is pretty perfect for letting the hops shine through.
     
  19. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Agreed on common language. Like it or not, the BJCP guidelines are the common language of beer styles. Let's settle on that so that when someone says they want to brew a black IPA, we all at least have a common point of reference.

    And it's true, there's so much overlap in styles that as JA says, many beers could be entered into multiple style categories.
     
  20. Ozarks Mountain Brew

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    In my opinion hops and roast don't go together, I think they clash the same with extremely malty beers, that's why most dark beers are less hoppy so when I think of a black ipa it's just a traditional ipa with a black color, that way you can taste the hops
     

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