Belgian Saison

Discussion in 'Recipes for Feedback' started by Nola_Brew, Dec 13, 2017.

  1. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    Looking to brew a Saison in the upcoming weeks.
    Here's what I have.
    5 Gal Fermenter
    IBU: 28.68
    OG: 1.053
    SRM: 5.13
    ABV: 5.63%
    60 min mash @ 152
    60 min boil
    Ferment @ 68

    9 lb Belgian Pilsner
    .5 lb Weyermann Pale Wheat
    .5 Vienna
    .5 Belgian Munich
    .25 Belgian Caramunich

    1.5 oz EKG @ 60
    1.65 oz Stryian Golding @ FO

    Danstar Belle Saison Yeast

    I'm unsure of the FO addition. Maybe add at 5 min?

    Thinking of adding the zest of an orange at 10 min. Thoughts?

    Should I be adding any peppercorns or coriander? I've seen some recipes using both, some adding candi sugar or regular sugar or honey.

    I've only had two Saison's. Both were from a local brewery. Sadly I don't remember which one. And I didn't detect and black pepper or anything "strange" and it wasn't overly sweet. It was a blood orange Saison and it was pretty good.

    Figured with this one, I would start off easy and maybe change it up a bit next time.

    Thoughts / suggestions are welcome and appreciated.
     
  2. FPMBomb

    FPMBomb Member

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    Grain bill looks great. I'd add a dry hop and add the orange zest at that time. Boiling zest for be 10 min. scares me. You could also dose it with triple sec to taste at packaging.
    Don't worry about the spice flavors the yeast will add those.
     
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  3. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Grain bill looks good. Mash high if you dont want it to dry out too much. Id just do a whirlpool hop addition. I like the lemon zest thing. 2nd the hold on black pepper the yeast should provide some spiceyness.

    Good luck.
     
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  4. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    Thanks for the feedback.
    I'll add the zest as a dry hop.
    Which hop would be best to dry hop with? EKG, Styrian Golding, Saaz or something else?
     
  5. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't dry hop at all - Saison is not a hop-forward style. But if I were going to do it, I'd do it with something that complements Saison flavors: Mandarina, Lemondrop, even Citra....
     
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  6. thehaze

    thehaze Active Member

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    A Saison is a very simple beer which is very yeast driven. Most saisons are just Pilsner malt. I would ditch any crystal in your recipe. Vienna and Munich malts are OK in smaller qty.

    Low IBUs, but make sure to have a firm bitterness at the same time. Dry hopping could possibly muddle the esters and phenols from the beer.

    Mash low, as the style requires a certain degree of dryness. Use a bit of sulfate for the mash and sparge water, to accentuate the dryness.

    Ferment warm, as warm as you can. Let it rise from pitch temp and give it time, as saison yeast tend to take some time, but Belle Saison is known to chug thru.

    If you were not aware, there is a new-ish Saison yeast from Fermentis, namely BE-134, which I have used. The beer is now being carbonated so I do not have any hints to the aromas and flavours, but I would think peppery and citrusy, based on the couple of threads I have found on other forums.
     
  7. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    It's difficult to try and formulate a recipe when there are so many variations. Some use just Pilsner, Munich and Vienna where others add Caramunich and Wheat. This is one style I've never brewed.

    I'm not sure on the hops. EKG and Styrian are noted in the style guidelines but it appears a lot of brewers use Saaz.

    Never heard of BE-134. let me know how that one turns out and may see if I can get some next go around.

    Citra is interesting and may try that on the second go around. Then again may add an ounce or so at FO.
     
  8. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Well it depends if your trying to go traditional. I used Eureka hops in my latest saison. I mashed high because I know it's going to attenuate well but last few I've done have hit 1.000! So I still want some flavour left.

    I suppose if going more the citrus route you may want it more attenuated and dry with the sulphate.
    https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/557525/mango-lasi-saison
     
  9. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    Honestly, I've never tried a traditional Saison. The two that I have tried leaned more towards citrusy. Not overwhelming citrus but it was there.
    What if I were to forgo the EKG and Styrian hops and go somewhat citrusy. Outside of Citra hops, what others would play well with Belle Saison yeast, either a stand alone hop or paired with something else.

    Would it be best to keep EKG, Styrian or Saaz as the bittering hop and go citrusy at FO? Like Citra and Amarillo?
     
  10. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    It's up to you NOLA I canna not help you much more than I have follow your brewstincts my man!:)
     
  11. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    What he said.... I'd definitely keep to the "citrussy" side. That said, you can't go wrong in a Saison with Styrian Goldings, boiled. As I mentioned earlier, I wouldn't dry hop. Maybe a bit of citrus zest or some star anise. But as I've frequently said, it's your beer, if you're happy with it, it's good.
     
  12. FPMBomb

    FPMBomb Member

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    I used Belle of Saison in a Tank No. 7 clone on my last brew that went to 1.002. The BF predicted FG was 1.010... Is this something we need the administration to address? The software appears to be way off on this yeast.
     
  13. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    That's because the Saison yeast isn't quite so predictable. Depending on how you ferment, temperature and such, depends on how much attenuation you'll get. But I agree: The Saison yeasts generally tend to attenuate more than predicted. But if you know it and keep records, you can adjust.
     
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  14. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Mash higher. depends on the strain of saison yeast that last yeast i got doesnt seem to be as aggressive it went around 90% attenuation. But i restained the fermentation temp to 26c tops and kept it at 21c for first 36hrs

    I think its a matter of getting to know the yeast your using.
     
  15. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    Thinking I might brew this on Tuesday. Grain bill is set. Problem is I don't have the hops. I'm thinking of changing the hops to just citrus type hops. If I were to do that what would be good hops to use?
    I do have some EL Dorado, so I'm thinking I may incorporate those hops.
    Looking for feedback.
    Thanks
     
  16. thehaze

    thehaze Active Member

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    El Dorado, although they are high in AA, are not as potent as other varieties. They are however fruitty, but rather mild in comparison to others. I got some candied cherry aromas and taste in a beer I made with El Dorado and Cascade.

    I think it could play nicely with saison yeast, but seeing that I have never tried it, you simply need to experiment. But it is safe to assume that the beer will be good nonetheless.
     
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  17. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    El Dorado in the late hopping can add a lot of depth to the fruit flavors. It's not citrus and not particularly tropical bit it tends to really support those notes in other hops. I think you'd have to be careful to not overpower it with something like Citra, but it might pair well with Mosaic. If you used it along with your Styrian, it might really pop. I think it'd be great with a good Saison yeast. To me it tends toward white grape/stonefruit and tends to be very lush. With the right spicy funk from the yeast, it could be a real winner.
     
  18. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    I was planning on adding an ounce or so of citra at FO. I think I have 2-2.5 oz of EL Dorado. Would that be enough to make a difference if I were to add that at FO along with Citra? I do have Simcoe, mosaic, Amarillo that I could include.
    Then again, I may hold off brewing this until next weekend so I can order some Styrian Golding.
     
  19. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Since it's a Saison, you'd want to avoid overpowering the yeast. I vote for the Styrian - big earthy noble dank to play with the peppery spice of the yeast and then bomb it with any of the hops you list...each will bring a different "strong suit" but any would make a great beer.
     
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  20. Nola_Brew

    Nola_Brew Active Member

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    As an update, brewed on 1/7/18. Bottled on 1/20.
    Only difference was with the hops. Magnum for bittering.
    Went with Amarillo at 10, 0 and DH and added .5 ounce of Citra at 0.
    I personally like Citra in small amounts so I'm hoping it enhances the profile.
    During fermentation the smell was awesome and the sample I tried at bottling was really good.
    Gonna let it age for a month and try it out.
     
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