any K-97 expereince?

Discussion in 'General Brewing Discussions' started by Ward Chillington, Apr 23, 2019.

  1. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

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    Heya folks...has anyone used Safale K-97 before and recall its growth cycle?

    I have brewed a small batch, 2 gal, of a Klosch from book published by Brooklyn Brew Shop. The recipe called for White Labs German Ale but a quick trip out to Google came on a dry yeast suggestion of Fermentis K-97. So here's where I am, I pitched an 11.5 g packet directly into the wort at 70° F that got 30 seconds of pure Oxygen on Saturday afternoon with an SG at 1052 and moved the carboy to the basement which was at about 60°F. By early Sunday afternoon I had a kausen forming on the top and I could see a yeast activity going on but no off gassing going on in my blow off set up that I had installed. Thinking that I was asking too much of the yeast and that maybe there was some CO2 making it out somewhere else so I made sure I had my lid sealed off and but in a double bubble lock with some Starsan. Still no off gassing.

    Not having any experience with the strain, is this normal?
     
  2. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    LOVE IT!!! I'm in the finals of the NHC with a beer brewed with it. It makes a very good German ale, fairly neutral, light pome fruit. My guess is there's a gas leak somewhere in the fermentor.
     
  3. oliver

    oliver Well-Known Member

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    all the fermentis stuff is very reputable. You said carboy, but then said lid, what are you fermenting in?

    If you've got a kraussen you've got fermentation happening, sounds like CO2 is escaping elsewhere besides the airlock.
     
  4. thehaze

    thehaze Active Member

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    K-97 is good for a dry yeast. Rather clean in character, maybe a tad bready. Works well for low-hopped Kolsch-like beers, but also in IPAs. Has decent attenuation at around 75-78%, but flocculates a bit worse than some yeast. It does however clear fine in the bottle in normal, fridge conditions. An OK candidate for a hazy, juicy Pale Ale/Session beer, now that spring is upon us.
     
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  5. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    I've brewed with it a bit brewed three kolsch s in a row with it. It will throw a good krausen a true top cropping yeast. It can be slow down around 14c yes it requires some patience on the Finnish I recon and needs a good month of conditioning untill bright clarity is achieved. I find it finished tart in all my three kolsch s I brewed with that yeast. Yes and 80% + attenuation.
     
  6. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I'm definitely a fan...I have a half-barrel batch of Kolsh working right now. It'll build a huge krausen, so be prepared for blowout if it gets over about 65. It can be slow to attenuate the last bit. For my big batch I pitched fresh slurry in the low 60's and held in the low-mid 50's for several days and started ramping up. It'll go over 80% attenuation but it may take 8-10 days or more to get all the way there. That big krausen leaves a lot of yeast stuck up on the sides of the carboy. I've had good luck with rousing/sloshing to get that stuff back in suspension after krausen slows.
    Clearing is definitely slow. I plan to do a big-hopped hazy pale with it for the summer.
     
  7. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    Hey Nosy. Can you give me some fermentation profile tips on how you use K97? I was so excited when this yeast came out but haven't had the best experiences. I haven't found it to be clean at all and leaves an off putting tart/tangy character.
     
  8. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Depends on what you want. I generally ferment a bit lower than 68 degrees, say 65 for an altbier, 62 for a Kolsch. I haven't noticed a tangy-tart character when using it, it comes out very clean for me. As mentioned above, it's performed well in my beers.
     
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  9. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    I have used it, but I didn't like it in a Kolsch. If you over pitch it and ferment on the warm side, the krausen makes it's way out of the airlock.

    I used it in a pale ale and won a gold at Minnesota State Fair a few years back, but for a Kolsch it's too fruity and tart. That's why I used in a pale ale because it's an acid producer with gives you a smoother bitterness, and the fruitiness blends into the hop character. The pH can be as low as 3.9 in the finished beer. The pH alone doesn't always lead to tartness, but I'm sure it contributes to it.

    I have a Kolsch going into nationals and I use Wyeast 1007, it's way cleaner and doesn't have the tartness. It also makes a great IPA/Pale Ale. I prefer 1007 over K97 for sure.
     
  10. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    #10 Iliff Avenue Brewhouse, Apr 23, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 23, 2019
    Thanks for the feedback. Glad to know that some of my perceptions are shared. I prefer WY2565 for my Kolsch but always thought a dry alternative for the style would be awesome.
     
  11. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    Yep I get plenty tart from k97.
     
  12. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    I don't think of tartness from K-97, though it does finish pretty crisp and dry and depending on hops and PH, that could lead someone to the impression of tartness, I guess.
    I have a batch of light Blonde Ale with Crystal hops that I used as a propagator to build up yeast for a half-barrel and it has huge lemon flavor and very dry finish. That one definitely seems a little tart to me.
     
  13. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    JA Three Batches all Kolsch all K97 I got tart in them all. I know the difference between tart and Dry my friend. And it's just my opinion what does it count for Nada ;).
     
  14. Ward Chillington

    Ward Chillington Well-Known Member

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    Yeah Oliver, I think you and Nosy are on it! I just can't figure out where! And you are right, what I am using is a little unconventional but it has worked in the past.

    20190423_210245.jpeg

    This small batch put some hardware I hadn't used for awhile back to work like Wifey's 4 gallon soup pot that I used for a kettle. It's a 2 1/2 gallon glass jar with a stainless steel lid that I fitted with a silicon lid underneath and a lock. Thinking that the silicon might have slipped, I wrapped the fermenter in saran wrap and a rubber band and re-secured the airlock. I'm seeing signs of off gassing, note the levels in the lock, but I have not experienced it first hand so...to say the least... things are slow.
     
  15. HighVoltageMan!

    HighVoltageMan! Well-Known Member

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    A lot of people like K97, I like it for IPA/PA, but in a cream ale or Kolsch not so much. I get a weird fruity tartness from it. Maybe I’m just sensitive to it. To each their own, there really isn’t a right or wrong answer.
     
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  16. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Not doubting...tartness just isn't something that I've experienced with it, really. Mostly more lager-like for me with a little fruitiness. Like I said, this last batch was very interesting because the hops really showed intense lemon and the malt is so light (1.040) and the finish is so dry (1.006) that it seems very tart.
     
  17. Trialben

    Trialben Well-Known Member

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    #17 Trialben, Apr 24, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 24, 2019
    Yeah totally picking up what your putting down on the fruityness thing. Of the three Kolschs I brewed recently my first crack was the best https://www.brewersfriend.com/homebrew/recipe/view/717899/k97-kolsch
    I brewed two more with different grist.
    Just viewed my notes on first "well balanced slightly malty and a slight Tartness that adds to the beer" yeast gave me 85% attenuation that batch finnishing 1.006 so yes quite dry mashed 61.5 ish C so was going to the dryness . I've got nothing else to compare with when it comes to kolsch yeast would like to try white labs 029 out one day but too many other appealing yeasts to try. But back to the OP don't be backward in comming forward when it comes to this K-97 German Ale yeast. I remember awhile back when attempting my first Kolsch phoning the local HB shop up asking for advice on brewing this style mentioning fermenting with K-97 he wasn't so positive about my yeast choice saying won't really be to style 029 is a better option well didn't really have any other choice. The results I remember was one of the best beers Ive brewed to date.
     
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  18. J A

    J A Well-Known Member

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    Some brewers and suppliers are really not very positive about dry yeast in general and I think sometimes their advice is a little misguided. The only time I used 029, the flavor was terrible. Admittedly, it was a questionable fermenation - at a friend's place at temps much higher than it should have been - but the flavor was ugly banana/tuti-fruiti. It put me off that yeast for good. I should revisit it.
     
  19. Iliff Avenue Brewhouse

    Iliff Avenue Brewhouse Well-Known Member

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    I think 029 is great yeast and have used it quite a lot. In my opinion it's almost too clean which is why I prefer WY2565. A local brewery makes a great kolsch and gave me some fermentation tips which has been very helpful.
     
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  20. Nosybear

    Nosybear Well-Known Member

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    Why, Iliff, you're practically a neighbor! Ever get over to the Dry Dock? Anyway, when we're talking the three strains, K-97, WLP029 and WY2565, we're probably not talking about that much difference between the strains, likely whatever someone could rustle from whatever brewer in Cologne (Sunner, Frueh, Altstadt, etc.). The important thing is still fermentation control. You want fruity, ferment warm (above 65 degrees F for a Koelsch yeast). Clean, ferment cool. I've never noticed a lot of tartness in my German hybrids, regardless of which strain I use, that could come from adding wheat malt, I'm guessing here. But remember: You ferment a Belgian Saison cool, you'll get a cleaner beer. Ferment a lager warm and you'll get esters.
     
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