A host of questions

[Bubbles]

Greetings. I’m coming back to homebrewing after an absence of about 15 years. My primary goal is to brew some good Belgian Ales, but I’m aware that some will likely take some time to age. In the meantime, a friend of mine and I are brewing some easier kits to “warm up.” I anticipate brewing maybe 5 – 10 batches/year. Maybe more this first year to get acquainted with all the advances and information now available compared to when I brewed in the ‘90s.

I have several questions and I don’t expect any one person will have all the answers, but I do appreciate any help you can send my way. I hope the questions I have will be similar to others in my situation and may help them take the leap back into brewing.

First, I’ve been researching yeast requirements and have concluded that for a starting specific gravity of around 1.060, it is wise to either use a starter culture or pitch two or three smack packs. Another alternative is to brew a lighter batch and use the resulting yeast in the fermenter for a heavier batch that can be dumped into the fermenter. I am a bit intimidated by the cost of equipment for starter cultures (mostly the stir plate) to get going – estimated at about $150. So, first question is, does pitching two or three smack packs suffice for the higher specific gravity beers? Assuming a good match for character of the yeast, does using yeast from a prior batch (primary fermenter) make sense. I’m particularly interested in numbers of yeast cells versus their condition – in some sort of growth phase, etc. Also, is it necessary or advisable to use yeast nutrient?

Second topic – brew kettle. I’ve read that the quality of your beer can be enhanced by using a full volume boil, that the hops are brought into solution better, that, when appropriate, the color of the resulting beer will be lighter, and that there will be less flavoring by carmalized malt. I’m considering buying an 8 gallon kettle with a thicker “sandwiched” bottom of stainless steel clad aluminum. I now have a rather thin 5 gallon kettle. One big question that I have is whether brewing a full volume will result in more difficulty in aeration of the wort, particularly for the higher specific gravity beers. With a partial boil I can add water from my aerator faucet and feel confident that there’s adequate oxygen in the mix. I have read that there may be concern about chlorine and I’m not sure how big an issue that is.

I intend to do fermentation in my basement and it will likely be around 70 degrees until probably November when it may drop down to 65 degrees. This, of course, may not be suitable for fermentation using Belgian Ale yeasts. Do these lower temps have an adverse effect for Belgian Ales other than creating less than ideal conditions for the yeasts? If so, what are my options for keeping temps higher other than heating my basement more? Emphasis on economical solutions.

Finally, I have been using my original plastic bucket fermenters and have read that this may increase risk of infection due to bugs being hidden in small scratches. My buckets appear to not have any scratches and I never did more than use a soft cloth to clean them. Any advise there?

Sorry about the long post. I realize that there is information on each of the subjects above in FAQ and other places on the web, but my orientation is, at least for now, to get perspectives so I can :geek: :geek: gear up to make excellent batches of Belgian Ales. I’m considering partial mash techniques for the future, but, at least for now, extract kits with specialty grains.

 

[LarryBrewer]

Welcome to the site Bubbles!

First, I’ve been researching yeast requirements and have concluded that for a starting specific gravity of around 1.060, it is wise to either use a starter culture or pitch two or three smack packs. Another alternative is to brew a lighter batch and use the resulting yeast in the fermenter for a heavier batch that can be dumped into the fermenter. I am a bit intimidated by the cost of equipment for starter cultures (mostly the stir plate) to get going – estimated at about $150. So, first question is, does pitching two or three smack packs suffice for the higher specific gravity beers? Assuming a good match for character of the yeast, does using yeast from a prior batch (primary fermenter) make sense. I’m particularly interested in numbers of yeast cells versus their condition – in some sort of growth phase, etc. Also, is it necessary or advisable to use yeast nutrient?

We are working on a yeast pitching calculator that will slot right into the recipe editor (and function as a stand alone tool as well). Correct, above 1.060, or above 5 gallons, two smack packs is recommended by the manufacturer. A stir plate and 1 gallon jug should only cost about $60 (http://www.stirstarters.com/) if you want to make your own starter. As for re-pitching, yes that is an option provided you had perfect conditions prior to re-pitching, and you are within a week. Yeast nutrient is a good idea, a small vial lasts all year.

Second topic – brew kettle. I’ve read that the quality of your beer can be enhanced by using a full volume boil, that the hops are brought into solution better, that, when appropriate, the color of the resulting beer will be lighter, and that there will be less flavoring by carmalized malt. I’m considering buying an 8 gallon kettle with a thicker “sandwiched” bottom of stainless steel clad aluminum. I now have a rather thin 5 gallon kettle. One big question that I have is whether brewing a full volume will result in more difficulty in aeration of the wort, particularly for the higher specific gravity beers. With a partial boil I can add water from my aerator faucet and feel confident that there’s adequate oxygen in the mix. I have read that there may be concern about chlorine and I’m not sure how big an issue that is.

Chlorine is bad and I can taste it in some extract brews made from Portland water. Full wort boils lead to better beer all the way around. I'd go with a 15 gallon kettle that has a ball valve so you can do 10 gallon batches. As for aeration, there are plenty of near zero cost DIY solutions such as pouring through a colander, or other means of creating splashing.

I intend to do fermentation in my basement and it will likely be around 70 degrees until probably November when it may drop down to 65 degrees. This, of course, may not be suitable for fermentation using Belgian Ale yeasts. Do these lower temps have an adverse effect for Belgian Ales other than creating less than ideal conditions for the yeasts? If so, what are my options for keeping temps higher other than heating my basement more? Emphasis on economical solutions.

I'll have to let other folks weigh in on this, I don't have much experience with Belgian Ale yeast at low temperatures. There are economical ways of building a DIY fermentation chamber too!

Finally, I have been using my original plastic bucket fermenters and have read that this may increase risk of infection due to bugs being hidden in small scratches. My buckets appear to not have any scratches and I never did more than use a soft cloth to clean them. Any advise there?

Make sure the buckets are the good, food safe grade type. Wiping down with Starsan really well before using, and soaking in a bleach solution between batches would be the simplest way to go. I'd be more worried about how well sealed they are than scratches that probably are not there.

 

[chessking]

1) You don't need a stir plate to make a starter. Stir plates are great for producing more yeast cells, but all you need is a large mason jar, or a growler, and make a starter wort at about 1.040 gravity. Two liters would be sufficient. Shake it to oxygen in it, cover w/ foil, and swirl it up every time you walk by. This adds O2 during the ferment to keep the yeast going and reproducing. You wouldn't do this to your large batch, but for a starter its fine. Nutrient is advisable if used in the proper amounts.
2) If you haven't bought a kettle yet, consider at least a 10 gal for a full boil. For 5 gal batches and a 90 min boil, I start w/ a 7 gal boil to get 6 gal post boil, to get 5.5 gal in the fermenter, and finally 5 gal in the keg. Also W/ a 10 gal kettle you can easily move to all grain with a BIAB setup. You can aerate cheaply with a good shaking of the fermenter, or a cheap aquarium pump setup. If you continue to do partial boil, you can hold out most of the extract until the last 15 min of the boil. This will give you better hop utilization in the thinner wort.
3) I start all my Belgian beers at 60 deg F for about three days, and then allow them to warm up over to about 72 deg over the next two weeks. This makes the yeast work a little harder to finish out at a lower FG w/o the fruity esters created in the early stages of fermentation. It sounds like you could use a heating pad and a cheap temp controller in the winter. Actually, I would pursue a fermentation temp control setup before worrying about stir plates, full volume boils, or all grain. Fermentation temperature control Is the big key to making great beer. A cheap Craigs list refrigerator ($50), and an Aquarium temperature controller ($25), and you can move to the next level.
4) Plastic buckets are fine, and cheap. If you clean and sanitize properly they will work great. However once you get an infection throw it away, and buy another.

Welcome back to brewing.

 

[Bubbles]

Thanks for your responses!

In doing some more research, it does sound like making Belgian ales is within my reach, given the basement temperature will be getting down to 65F in the near future. I listened to an interview of Stan Hieronymous talking about homebrewing Belgian ales and he said that, in the case of a Dubble, you can pitch in the low 60s and that the activity of fermentation will bring the temperature up into the 70s. I've read that you can cover the carboy with a heavy blanket to keep the temperature up for at least a few days after pitching -- apparently to retain the warmth by the fermentation. Nonetheless, I have also read that aeration and having enough yeast are critical factors and am considering getting a stone aerator hooked up to a disposable welding oxygen tank to ensure adequate level of O2a. For the heavier BAs, I haven't really reached a conclusion about the necessity of a starter culture vs using 2 or more smack packs. I am planning to read a book on yeast to get more ideas on that question.

In the meantime, I brewed a blond ale kit over the weekend using a kit (Wyeast Abbey II) from Northern Brewer and adding some grains that I steeped. I pitched at probably too high a temp (around 76F) -- wish I would have heard the above interview before making this batch! So I got some stinky sulfur aroma toward the end of the first day, but it smells much better today. NB assured me that this is not something to be too concerned about, but I'm guessing that I'll get a lot of esters thanks to the higher fermentation temp.

I also came up with a "hillbilly" wort chiller design that I used for the blond ale -- a plastic garbage can with patio blocks on the bottom to set the kettle on at a high enough level to access. I put a garden hose in the can and cut a hole at a level where the water level was covering 3/4 of the height of the kettle. With a low flow from the hose, the water coming out the hole was very warm at first, then cooled as the wort cooled. It took about 40 minutes to get the temp down to 76. I think this is more efficient than cooling in a tub of water, maybe not.

Any suggestions about where I can learn more about brewing Belgian ales? I have ordered the "Brew like a monk" book, but am certainly open to other suggestions.

Thanks again

 

[JAMC]

Welcome to the forum bubbles. As a fellow admirer of Belgian styles I'm sure we'll be swapping stories in no time! I'm fairly new to home brewing having only done 5 batches, but I've jumped straight in at the deep end and gone for all grain. Two of these have been Belgian ales.

It seems like most of your initial questions have been answered (you don't need a stir plate for starters, you can control temps with a hot plate and blanket, you can aerate with pure O2 etc...). My question for you is what are your thoughts on yeast for Belgian ales? From the limited experience I've gained over the last 6 or 7 months, it seems to me that the choice of yeast has a massive impact on the Belgian character of the finished product.

I'm in England, so I'm fairly fortunate to be closeby to Belgium (it's just across the English channel) meaning that most of the famous Belgian beers are available here - if you know where to look. For me it's made a lot of sense to simply reculture the strain I want to use from the dregs of a beer I've drunk. I've done this twice with Chimay yeast.

 

[Bubbles]

Hi JAMC,

I'm probably going to proceed at a much slower rate than you -- highly unlikely that I'll be doing all grain, but a partial mash appears to be doable without much additional investment. I'm not so sure about some of the issues regarding stir plates and O2 -- I'm hoping to have a better handle on those once I do some reading about yeast. I think you can do well without the stir plate and oxygen aeration, but brewing mostly extract or partial mash will likely mean that I have to do a bit more on several factors to improve the quality of my beers, especially when I start making the higher SG ones. I have a blond ale kit in my primary now in which I used Wyeast Abbey II. I had a fair amount of sulfur aroma toward the end of the first day, but the activity of the fermentation was amazing -- I had never used a blowoff tube before and am grateful that I'd been warned to use one -- wow! I think the sulfur factor may have been a combination of high pitching temp (76F) and likely low oxygen level (I used a spray tip at the end of my siphon hose that probably didn't give enough aeration). Nonetheless, the sample I took last night (72 hours into the fermentation) showed good progress on attenuation and an amazing taste. So, it will be a while before I can make any definitive comments on my first attempt at with a Belgian yeast, but so far, I'm feeling optimistic. I plan to use the yeast cake for the next batch, a Surly Cynic partial mash clone kit from Northern Brewer, and, assuming the planets align, will use the resulting yeast cake for a Belgian dubbel, maybe a partial mash kit, maybe an extract kit with specialty grains. If I'm feeling really confident, I may do a strong dark Belgian. In this case, I'm hoping to get high enough yeast numbers at each successive batch, ending with the highest SG wort, the Belgian dubbel or strong dark. I've discussed this with several people at Northern Brewer and they think it's a good plan. By the end of the three batches, I'll likely have gotten to know at least one Belgian yeast well. I'm then planning to do a Belgian Trippel, so maybe in a year I'll have a modicum of knowledge about Belgian ales, but I know that it will be a long time before I can speak with the slightest authority on the Belgian yeasts. Clearly, I've got a LOT to learn. And I will remain very curious about how I can improve. Thanks for the encouragement.