Is it worth doing closed pressure transfer

[Hawkbox]

When you natural carb in a keg do you have to do anything special regarding serving pressure? Or just blow off any excess when you hook up the serving line? Or do you even need a serving line? (I assume you do).

 

[soccerdad]

I don't transfer beer into the same post (beer out). I run the transfer line directly from my fermenter into the keg (lid off), making sure that the transfer line is sitting on the bottom of the keg. I use the "beer out" post just to get CO2 directly into the bottom of the keg. Since CO2 is heavier than the air we breathe, theoretically, the CO2 blanket stays on top of the beer that is rising from the bottom of the keg. Once the beer is transferred to the keg, then I put the lid on the keg, put the CO2 line from my regulator onto the "Gas" post and purge out any remaining air through a half dozen or so burps of the pressure release valve.

So Mase - in your opinion, is what I have in mind going to reduce my chance of oxidation?

What I do now. Beer has reached final gravity and rested a bit. Keg is cleaned and sanitized. Clean posts and tubes are tightened and ready. Lid is off corny keg, and long silicone tube is run to very bottom of keg. Auto siphon starts and beer flows very quietly to bottom of keg. Keg fills. At proper moment siphon is stopped, Lid is clamped in place. Shot of co2. Check for leaks. Purge head space. Another shot .. a final leak check. A tiny purge to see that we has gas in the right place and the keg is set aside to wait it's turn.

What I think I can do ...Beer has reached final gravity and rested a bit. Keg is cleaned and sanitized. Clean posts and tubes are tightened and ready. Lid is off corny keg, and long silicone tube is run to very bottom of keg. Shot of co2 to bottom of keg. Auto siphon starts and beer flows very quietly to bottom of keg. Keg fills. At proper moment siphon is stopped, Lid is clamped in place. Shot of co2. Check for leaks. Purge head space. Another shot .. a final leak check. A tiny purge to see that we has gas in the right place and the keg is set aside to wait it's turn.

If this will make a difference, it will be relatively easy and cost effective. I have a pin valve tank and regulator that can easily be used to add that shot before the beers goes in

 

[Mase]

So Mase - in your opinion, is what I have in mind going to reduce my chance of oxidation?

What I do now. Beer has reached final gravity and rested a bit. Keg is cleaned and sanitized. Clean posts and tubes are tightened and ready. Lid is off corny keg, and long silicone tube is run to very bottom of keg. Auto siphon starts and beer flows very quietly to bottom of keg. Keg fills. At proper moment siphon is stopped, Lid is clamped in place. Shot of co2. Check for leaks. Purge head space. Another shot .. a final leak check. A tiny purge to see that we has gas in the right place and the keg is set aside to wait it's turn.

What I think I can do ...Beer has reached final gravity and rested a bit. Keg is cleaned and sanitized. Clean posts and tubes are tightened and ready. Lid is off corny keg, and long silicone tube is run to very bottom of keg. Shot of co2 to bottom of keg. Auto siphon starts and beer flows very quietly to bottom of keg. Keg fills. At proper moment siphon is stopped, Lid is clamped in place. Shot of co2. Check for leaks. Purge head space. Another shot .. a final leak check. A tiny purge to see that we has gas in the right place and the keg is set aside to wait it's turn.

If this will make a difference, it will be relatively easy and cost effective. I have a pin valve tank and regulator that can easily be used to add that shot before the beers goes in

That replicates my approach. Go for it.

 

[Hawkbox]

That seems like a lot of work to me, but I hope it works for you guys.

 

[jeffpn]

It’s a very simple process hawkbox, and you should be doing it all the time.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

That replicates my approach. Go for it.

Shooting co2 into the keg and purging with gas alone does reduce o2 levels, but it doesn’t get as low as if you were to fill the keg with starsan and push it out. The problem with putting co2 into a keg with it open to the air is that co2 does not stratify very well. Gases will mix even though co2 is heavier, there is no reliable way to detriment if there is a “layer” over the beer. If you purge with gas alone with the keg sealed, the keg has to be filled and purge of gas at least 8 times before the o2 levels drop to a reasonable level and it’s still higher than a keg that was purge by pushing out a liquid.

Purging with gas is an improvement, but it wastes a lot of co2. By filling through the liquid post with a keg that maintains positive pressure, you get to the lowest level of o2 ingress a home brewer could expect and it’s about the same amount of work and time.

It seems complicated, but once you do it a few times, it’s not a big deal.

 

[Mase]

Shooting co2 into the keg and purging with gas alone does reduce o2 levels, but it doesn’t get as low as if you were to fill the keg with starsan and push it out. The problem with putting co2 into a keg with it open to the air is that co2 does not stratify very well. Gases will mix even though co2 is heavier, there is no reliable way to detriment if there is a “layer” over the beer. If you purge with gas alone with the keg sealed, the keg has to be filled and purge of gas at least 8 times before the o2 levels drop to a reasonable level and it’s still higher than a keg that was purge by pushing out a liquid.

Purging with gas is an improvement, but it wastes a lot of co2. By filling through the liquid post with a keg that maintains positive pressure, you get to the lowest level of o2 ingress a home brewer could expect and it’s about the same amount of work and time.

It seems complicated, but once you do it a few times, it’s not a big deal.

Appreciate the input, but as mentioned earlier, I’ve never had detectable symptoms of oxidation with the method I use and that I shared with soccerdad. Not suggesting it works for everyone, rather just sharing my approach.

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Appreciate the input, but as mentioned earlier, I’ve never had detectable symptoms of oxidation with the method I use and that I shared with soccerdad. Not suggesting it works for everyone, rather just sharing my approach.

Gotcha!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

Just in case anyone needs this

https://www.brewhardware.com/product_p/ptrcarboyecon.htm

https://www.brewhardware.com/category_s/1864.htm

 

[HighVoltageMan!]

Thanks! I like how the gas is connected to the orange cap. It’s a lot better than what I do.

 

[Hawkbox]

Oh shit I never thought of that. That's a hell of an idea. I may actually try that out. I'm not super impress with those caps for carbonating water, never seem to get a good seal.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

if anyone buys these remember to use hose clamps on both the hoses and the orange cap

 

[Mase]

Perfect timing. One of the YouTubers that I follow just posted a video on just how Ozarks is doing his transfer.

 

[Hawkbox]

Now I just need to find an orange cap that fits on a fermonster.

 

[soccerdad]

I did a quick, cheap and dirty test today with 3 gallons that was ready to go into a 3 G keg. All it cost me was a 12 gram co2 cartridge.

I have had a hand held co2 charger for a while. I have used it to shoot, purge and shoot co2 into kegs waiting to go into service. I modified it to shoot through either a gas in or beer out QD.

First, used beer QD to shoot co2 to keg bottom. Then started beer siphon. I watched the beer rise through a gas cloud that appeared to be mostly co2. Beer done, I pulled the siphon hose, clamped the lid on, switched to gas QD, shot the head space, purged the head space, shot it once more and the 12 grams were gone.

When I get my paintball tanks filled I may do this a little less quick, less cheap, less dirty

 

[griz]

I don't transfer beer into the same post (beer out). I run the transfer line directly from my fermenter into the keg (lid off), making sure that the transfer line is sitting on the bottom of the keg. I use the "beer out" post just to get CO2 directly into the bottom of the keg. Since CO2 is heavier than the air we breathe, theoretically, the CO2 blanket stays on top of the beer that is rising from the bottom of the keg. Once the beer is transferred to the keg, then I put the lid on the keg, put the CO2 line from my regulator onto the "Gas" post and purge out any remaining air through a half dozen or so burps of the pressure release valve.

Hi Mase. So when you add some C02 to the bottom of your keg, at what psi are you using? And do you keep adding that same amount of C02 until your keg is full?

 

[Mase]

Hi Mase. So when you add some C02 to the bottom of your keg, at what psi are you using? And do you keep adding that same amount of C02 until your keg is full?

I set the regulator to 10-12 psi, attach to the liquid post (to direct CO2 to the bottom of the keg) for maybe 10 seconds +/- No way to tell if the keg is full with my method, just basing in CO2 being heavier than room air.

 

[griz]

I set the regulator to 10-12 psi, attach to the liquid post (to direct CO2 to the bottom of the keg) for maybe 10 seconds +/- No way to tell if the keg is full with my method, just basing in CO2 being heavier than room air.

Got it. Thanks.