Pilsner Urquell clone (Czech Pilsner)

[Nosybear]

You could have used a glass....

Good looking brew but a 9% Pilsner? Dang.

 

[EbonHawk]

You could have used a glass....

Good looking brew but a 9% Pilsner? Dang.

Not if I didn't want to open another one.

Yeah, I know..9%. I'm still dialing in that part of the process. Efficiency has been a bit erratic lately and haven't locked in on why. Not that that would have made a HUGE difference in the ABV, but still..

 

[Nosybear]

I hear you.... Got 84% conversion on the Maerzen I did this weekend. Pushed my anticipated OG from 1.054 to 1.060 (hot). I caught it soon enough and watered it to 1.058 (chilled) but I'm still going to wind up at a higher ABV than intended. Now I'll also have more beer than intended, a good thing, since I'll be supplying an Oktoberfest party with it.

 

[EbonHawk]

I hear you.... Got 84% conversion on the Maerzen I did this weekend. Pushed my anticipated OG from 1.054 to 1.060 (hot). I caught it soon enough and watered it to 1.058 (chilled) but I'm still going to wind up at a higher ABV than intended. Now I'll also have more beer than intended, a good thing, since I'll be supplying an Oktoberfest party with it.

Quite a bit ahead of the Oktoberfest schedule, aren't you? Nothing wrong with it, just it's a long way off.

 

[Nosybear]

I do the traditional Maerzen schedule: Brew in March (April this year) for consumption in the fall. It's superstition, not science: I don't know that the extended lagering results in a superior beer but my Oktoberfest sure goes quickly.

 

[Head First]

I do the traditional Maerzen schedule: Brew in March (April this year) for consumption in the fall. It's superstition, not science: I don't know that the extended lagering results in a superior beer but my Oktoberfest sure goes quickly.

Tradition is science not superstition . For what they had to work with they must have made good beer back when. I was late with mine also and it was slightly up in efficiency too. Maybe its a good year?
Just curious, how long from brew day do you bottle? I have been racking into kegs when secondary clears but because of lack of enough kegs was considering leaving it chilled in secondary. Thoughts?

( Don't mean to steal post. That is one very pretty Pil's)

 

[EbonHawk]

Ahh, ok. I didn't know about that tradition. Hmmm, I've thought about doing "targeted" brews like that, start with a "big beer" well in advance. Lager it for a long time, bottle it for a long time, then open it for a special occasion.

Just curious, how long from brew day do you bottle? I have been racking into kegs when secondary clears but because of lack of enough kegs was considering leaving it chilled in secondary. Thoughts?

( Don't mean to steal post. That is one very pretty Pil's)

Thanks, and I don't mind, any discussion is good discussion in my book.

With the pils, it was 14 days in primary, then 1 month in secondary (lager temp, 38°F). So 44 days from brew to bottle. Took an extra couple of weeks to carbonate (about 3 weeks total) to get to the level of carb I like. Huge fluffy head that stays for just a couple of minutes, then it's gone.

 

[Nosybear]

I do the traditional Maerzen schedule: Brew in March (April this year) for consumption in the fall. It's superstition, not science: I don't know that the extended lagering results in a superior beer but my Oktoberfest sure goes quickly.

Tradition is science not superstition . For what they had to work with they must have made good beer back when. I was late with mine also and it was slightly up in efficiency too. Maybe its a good year?
Just curious, how long from brew day do you bottle? I have been racking into kegs when secondary clears but because of lack of enough kegs was considering leaving it chilled in secondary. Thoughts?

( Don't mean to steal post. That is one very pretty Pil's)

The tradition was the science of the time, arrived at by trial-and-error, sometimes wrong (the original Reinheitsgebot didn't mention yeast, for example) but pretty good, given the technology of the time.

How long from brew day to bottling? Dang, that's a complicated question. Short answer, when the beer is done, generally as determined by a taste test and a chill test to see if I get haze and need to fine the beer. Longer answer, an ale generally goes from 4 weeks to upwards of three months, depending on the strength of the beer. I've lagered up to five months. I don't rush my beers and have had bad results when I did. Bringing the post back to topic, the five month lagering time was for an American pils that refused to clear. It eventually did and was a magnificent beer.

 

[jmcnamara]

I've found beer to be at its best when there's only one left. I'm not a patient man

 

[EbonHawk]

I've found beer to be at its best when there's only one left. I'm not a patient an

I know exactly what you mean, hehe.

 

[Head First]

I've probably only brewed 8 lagers in the past five years and patience is always a problem for me. That's why the Maerzen for the last 4 years always turns out so well. I HAVE TO wait. :lol:
This one will probably sit in secondary at 35-38 until the first of September. That should give it time to force carb.

 

[Solar]

thank you this is a great reply.

Question: What does the rest of your water profile look like after Calcium?

RC

Fermentation control is key. If you can't ferment at 50 degrees F and lager near freezing, forget it and make a California Common. Your ingredient list will make a pilsner, the acidulated malt will take care of some of the alkalinity in harder water, as would addition of calcium. Use the water calculator on this site to help you make choices based on residual alkalinity, the key variable of water chemistry for brewing. If I were brewing this, I'd start with RO or distilled water and build it up to at least 40 ppm calcium, using calcium chloride because you want to favor malt over hops in a pils. If you do that, you may be able to take the acidulated malt out and spare yourself some tartness in the beer.

Your starter should be as big as you can reasonably make it. You don't need temperature control for the starter, in fact, the yeast will favor warmer temps as long as they're not too extreme. You're looking for reproduction here, not beer quality. Make the starter at least a quart/liter, oxygenate the wort well to give the yeast a good running start on the fermentation and you should be fine. I'll generally do a 1.5 quart (liter) starter for a lager and it seems to work for me. A side note: Czech Pilsners in Czech Republic are generally diacetyl bombs, not the "clean" lager they send over here. No surprise: Diacetyl actually tastes pretty good in fresh beers, at least until it oxidizes and becomes nasty. So don't be surprised if that's what you get. Larger starters and good fermentation control should take care of that problem.

 

[Nosybear]

thank you this is a great reply.

Question: What does the rest of your water profile look like after Calcium?

RC

It really doesn't matter if you start with RO water - there won't be enough sulfate or chloride to make the balance meaningful but just for grins, I'd bias toward the outcome I wanted, sulfate for bitterness, chloride for malt. Some magnesium might help, too, say 8 ppm. I made a typing error in the post above, shoot for 50 ppm calcium. You can mix it up, some calcium chloride and epsom salt.

My local water profile (averaged) is this:

When I want to make a pilsner or helles, I cut the water 50%, bring up the calcium and acidify to get to a mash pH of 5.2. Remember, it's the mash pH that's important, think of the ions as seasonings.

 

[Solar]

It really doesn't matter if you start with RO water - there won't be enough sulfate or chloride to make the balance meaningful but just for grins, I'd bias toward the outcome I wanted, sulfate for bitterness, chloride for malt. Some magnesium might help, too, say 8 ppm. I made a typing error in the post above, shoot for 50 ppm calcium. You can mix it up, some calcium chloride and epsom salt.

My local water profile (averaged) is this:
View attachment 1802

When I want to make a pilsner or helles, I cut the water 50%, bring up the calcium and acidify to get to a mash pH of 5.2. Remember, it's the mash pH that's important, think of the ions as seasonings.

I am using RO, so everything becomes critical for my salts and acids. It seems Pilsner profiles are a bit lower than 50 but some were higher.

My strike water starts around 5.6 and drops to around 5.2 when I add (all) grains.

What temperature profiles do you prefer / utilize?

RC

 

[Nosybear]

Step mash: 144/156/170 (degrees F, natch), batch sparge.

 

[Solar]

Timings?

 

[GFHomebrew]

My step mash times 10 at protine 40 at beta and 30 alpha then raise to mash out temp. See what Nosey throws up though.

 

[Nosybear]

Time for me is generally 30 minutes each with a 10-15 minute sparge. Gets me into the low '80's for conversion. I don't do protein rests - generally only good for reducing head retention given today's malts.

 

[GFHomebrew]

Time for me is generally 30 minutes each with a 10-15 minute sparge. Gets me into the low '80's for conversion. I don't do protein rests - generally only good for reducing head retention given today's malts.

Hence my short proteine rest and not to be too smug but my recent pils tells me it aint doing it no harm.

Great side subject still linked to this thread i see brulospher has just released a standard infusion vs hockhurst step mash exbeerment...

 

[J A]

My step mash times 10 at protine 40 at beta and 30 alpha then raise to mash out temp. See what Nosey throws up though.

That's right in the range of what I usually do. For me 15 min protein, 45 min Beta, 15 min alpha, 30 minute sparge seems to work. Most often I end up undershooting Beta temp and doing a 10-15 minute rise from low Beta range to 150-ish.
I think particularly short rests are favored by decoction brewers. Not that conversion happens any faster, but the process has to move along and also the actual decoction unlocks starches in a different way.