Why is my beer sweet???

jay3847

Member
Trial Member
Joined
Feb 18, 2017
Messages
76
Reaction score
27
Points
18
I have brewed three beers recently that were described as sweet. In each case, they had fermented well and had used a 148 saccharification rest or combo 148 and 156. The three beers were very different: an imperial stout, belgian golden strong and a blonde ale. Thoughts about what direction I should investigate first?

The Belgian was ABV 9.5%, FG 1.005, IBU 33. I have suspected my hop utilization was low so did not use a hop bag in the last batch. My yeast for that was WY3522. Here's the recipe on the Belgian....
Batch size 2.25gal
Pre-Boil Gravity : 1.040
Original Gravity : 1.077
Final Gravity : 1.005
Fermentables (5 lb 15 oz)
4 lb 4 oz - Pilsen MD 1.7 °L (71.6%)
1 lb 6 oz - Cane Sugar 0 °L (23.2%)
3 oz - Melanoidin 19 °L (3.2%)
2 oz - White Wheat 2.6 °L (2.1%)
Hops (1.4 oz)
90 min - 0.7 oz - Styrian Goldings - 3.5% (22 IBU)
30 min - 0.4 oz - Saaz - 4% (11 IBU)
Hop Stand 10 min hopstand @ 176 °F 10 min - 0.3 oz - Saaz - 4% (1 IBU)
Mash Profile Mash Steps
148 °F - 60 min - Beta rest
156 °F - 30 min - Alpha rest
168 °F - 15 min - Mash out
Fermentation 65 °F - 14 days
 
At first glance I can't see anything wrong.
My initial idea was the mash, but that all looks fine.
How did you measure the FG? If you used a refractometer, you'll have to compensate the reading for the presence of alcohol
 
Yup your FG is 1.005 starting gravity of 1.077?
Calculator on here puts you at 93% attenuation 9.45%abv

I can't imagine how that didn't finish dry.
Only sweet malt in there is melanoidin malt this would provide some unfermentable sugars the yeast shouldn't digest you could drop that next run.

Adding that amount of cane sugar and that low n slow step mash should = dry beer to me:rolleyes:.

Mate I'm at a loss see where others can steer you.

Only other thing would maybe adding higher sulphate to chloride ratio to accentuate that crisp drying finish.
 
Sadly, this was the result of the competition I just entered. I got that from both judges.
I measure gravity with a hydrometer before going into the fermenter and then confirm that with my Tilt (which was calibrated).
Sigh.
 
You're mentioning 3 beers but providing stats on only one. And does the recipe you posted have the actual measured OG and FG or projected based on calculator settings? What was your actual attenuation for each beer?
Did you use a lot of Crystal malt or similar for the blonde or anything unusual in the stout? Nothing in the Belgian recipe looks out of place in terms of residual or perceived sweetness. I could see that Belgian having a lot of malt and the fruity esters from the yeast giving a false impression of sweetness but at 1.005, it's going to finish dry and have a very present alcohol note.
 
Sadly, this was the result of the competition I just entered. I got that from both judges.
There's competitions and there's competitions. If it's a small, local competition, sometimes judges are just not that experienced. And the judges at a table will compare notes and sometimes can talk one another into a perception. I'm with others here...a beer that's over 90% attenuated is not objectively sweet. :)
 
@jay3847 : can you post us all a sample to taste :p

Just joking
But what is your own opinion on your beer? Do you like it?
Mostly Belgian blondes, tripels and ales (but also double and quadrupples) are a little sweet as compared to a lager.
They are supposed to be so!

Maybe see if you can get some commercial ones and taste them next to your concoctions?
If you can get them, try affligem blonde (and tripel), leffe blond, and Duvel (strong ale)
 
I did wonder about crosstalk from the judges.

Those were the measured gravities. The Blonde ale is a 5 gallon batch with 8lbs 2 row, 4oz munich (I wanted a touch of malt and sweet), and a pound of wheat. Started 1.048 down to 1.006. San Diego Super Yeast. It is quite sweet. The finish is crisp and not a ton of body, but certainly a sweet start.
 
Groupthink among judges is definitely rampant. Not saying for sure that it happened here, but it absolutely does happen. I have been saying for 15 years.... if you really want true objective scores on any particular beer, then you NEED to enter it into AT LEAST 3 competitions. Then, comparing against your own perceptions, determine which ~60% of the scoresheets are utter baloney and throw them into the recycle bin and pretend they never happened. Only about 40% of scoresheets on average are worth anything. That's been my experience from day one and continues to be.
 
Stouts and Belgians tend to be 'sweet'. I don't have enough experience with blondes to comment.

Sweet can easily be confused with malty. A thicker mouthfeel can contribute to this. Yeast choice definitely influences this.

As mentioned above, if you like it I don't sweat the details. But 'sweet' is typical of the styles.
 
Yup exactly sweet and malty are two and the same.
There is cloying sweet I feel where the malt sweetness is out of balance with the bitterness this could be what your perceiving.

But you said your blond starts sweet but not how it finishes.
I'm glad If my blond ale starts with good malt flavour and finishes crisp.

Fg 1.006 again that's a low FG crisp is how I rekon that one ought to finish.
I think the judges are splitting hairs and trying to find fault and or talking out their arses lol.

Remember it's subjective don't take it so personally.:)
 
Last edited:
Probably completely irrelevant, but maybe worth asking... Are your beers bottle conditioned?
All of my beers are "sweet" the first 3-6 weeks in the bottle. The beer (both pale ales and lagers) has finished fermentation at bottling and I have used both gyle and table sugar to prime, but it doesn't seem to matter. The bottle beer is always somehow sweet to my palate until conditioned for at least a good month or more.
 
Ironically, two of the three were bottled using a beer gun and one was from the keg.

  • I am going to check all my measurement tools again.
  • I'm probably going to add hops differently since I don't think I get great utilization anyway (I've used hop bags because I don't want to clog the grainfather pump).
  • Denny Conn commented on a similar post (just saw it) and he thought the problem was under hopping the beer
  • For the Belgian, I've been using Dingeman's. I'm going to brew with either Admiral or Great Western
  • I don't think it is diacetyl but will look at my methods closely. The 110 grainfather doesn't really get a rolling boil, so who knows about DMS, but there is no creamed corn here. Hmmmmm.
Thank you, everyone.
 
I'd say if you can confirm your gravity readings through equipment calibration, you can be pretty confident that the flavor perceptions being cited are not faults or off flavors. All the beers you described here can have a malty flavor up front, especially if they're not balanced with the proper perception of bitterness from the hops. There's no doubt that water chemistry can have a big impact on whether malt or hops is forward in the flavor, especially up front. Even if these beers were registering as somewhat extra malty and somewhat sweet, the dry finish and strong alcohol notes from the higher ABV brews would balance that out.
You're to be commended for your concern and perserverance but it sounds like you're brewing better beer than those particular judges are giving credit for.
Out of curiosity, how did they actually score these beers? Were they relatively generous in their overall score but with specific notes or did they score harshly?
 
Ironically, two of the three were bottled using a beer gun and one was from the keg.

  • I am going to check all my measurement tools again.
  • I'm probably going to add hops differently since I don't think I get great utilization anyway (I've used hop bags because I don't want to clog the grainfather pump).
  • Denny Conn commented on a similar post (just saw it) and he thought the problem was under hopping the beer
  • For the Belgian, I've been using Dingeman's. I'm going to brew with either Admiral or Great Western
  • I don't think it is diacetyl but will look at my methods closely. The 110 grainfather doesn't really get a rolling boil, so who knows about DMS, but there is no creamed corn here. Hmmmmm.
Thank you, everyone.
Bu : gu matters in recipie formulation.
Bittering units to gravity units.
This could be out a bit with your beers?

Maybe have a read up on the subject and suitable bu:gu ratios for them beer styles.
 
Out of curiosity, how did they actually score these beers? Were they relatively generous in their overall score but with specific notes or did they score harshly?
25. No bad on them though. I know there is a lack of judges right now and this will push me to improve.

Also, I haven’t done much re my bitterness ratios. I’m researching that now (instead of working. Hah!).
 
Last edited:

Back
Top