Best lager yeast for warmer fermentation

I don't like how long Lutra takes to clear up, probably won't be using it again in the future. However without fermentation temperature control, it does produce a clean tasting beer compared to Voss kveik. But the yeasty flavor lingers for a long time
 
@Sunfire96 you're not a fan of Voss? I use it pretty much exclusively in summer. I love it!!!
I like that it ferments around 90F without issue :) but something about the flavor profile and characteristics of the yeast itself I'm not a big fan of. I've got one last Voss kveik fermentation waiting to be bottled and it's sortof my last minute Hail mary attempt at a brew with voss that I'm happy with. I very recently acquired a fermentation fridge, so hopefully the 90F fermentation days are behind me :)
 
I like that it ferments around 90F without issue :) but something about the flavor profile and characteristics of the yeast itself I'm not a big fan of. :)
I agree. I have tried it several times. I like the fact that the wort only needs to be cooled to 105F, which really easy and that it takes off in 2-3 hours, but the finish has a twang to it that I just don't care for. Voss is a really fast yeast, but S04 isn't far behind. Voss finishes in 3 days, S04 is 4-5 days at 65F. S04 is much cleaner and there's no twang to the finish. Haven't tried the Lutra, but summer is over here so it may have to wait until next summer.
 
I have brewed 3 beers now using Voss, all ales. In my process, I do not use any clarifying agents, just relying on time for beer clarity. For each of the beers, clarity was definitely lacking. They all ended up cloudy/hazy.
 
I like that it ferments around 90F without issue :) but something about the flavor profile and characteristics of the yeast itself I'm not a big fan of. I've got one last Voss kveik fermentation waiting to be bottled and it's sortof my last minute Hail mary attempt at a brew with voss that I'm happy with. I very recently acquired a fermentation fridge, so hopefully the 90F fermentation days are behind me :)
Glad to hear your insights on this Lutra did you cold crash it?
I've come to expect this with Kviek in general it doesnt like to flock out.
 
I've been holding out of this one for a while....

"Lagering" has nothing to do with the fermentation temperature, it's the process of storing the beer cold for a time after fermentation is complete. As far as yeast selection goes, it's been tried with a number of the options, including Kviek, mentioned here. It all comes down to what you like. I like a good, clean, cold fermentation followed by a long clarification in the tank, in other words, a traditional German lager. You want to ferment it with distiller's turbo yeast at 90 degrees then lager it, it's still technically a lager, although you won't be winning competitions with it. There is no best.

My recommendation for lagers: Get a yeast selected for cold, clean fermentation. Ferment them cold and cleanly, that is, with plenty of yeast and, if using liquid yeast, plenty of O2. Ferment cold through half the fermentation, then let the temperature rise so the yeast can dry out the beer. Gently chill it to lager temps, don't cold crash, then store it for a month to six months, depending on the beer.

That said, however you choose to ferment it is right, as long as you like the outcome.
 
Yeah...what @Nosybear said...
At some point you just aren't brewing a lager once you change the yeast and the fermentation temperature, even if you "lager" it and let it clear for some time in cold temps. You may think you have a "clean" beer but if you're actually shooting for a beer that's similar to what we think of when we think lager, you may have to think in terms other than 90 degree fermentation. "Warm" temp for a lager is between 60 and 70 as some traditional lager strains will work relatively well in that range. If Kveik yeast strains were meant to be used for a "lager" we'd have heard more about the Nordic brewing tradition mixed into the conversation about German brewing. :rolleyes:
 
Glad to hear your insights on this Lutra did you cold crash it?
I've come to expect this with Kviek in general it doesnt like to flock out.
Not before packaging. I didn't have the ability to cold crash my fermenter

Also @Nosybear and @J A, you're obviously not wrong about how to produce a traditional lager. But for the majority of new brewers, that process is unobtainable, hence the desire to do a "warm fermented lager." Trying to mimic a favorite lager style without the technology to do so. I'm sure you remember being a new brewer, wanting to have your cake and eat it too :D
 
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I'm a 34/70 guy myself. I have used it in the 60's with great success! Just did it again with an Oktoberfest - I'll keep you posted on the results in a few weeks!
@BeerWolf
Fermented 2 ten gallon batches since my post. Each batch I separated into 2 - 5 gallon fermenters. 1 fermented at lager temp and the other fermented at 65-70 under 3-5 psi. All warm batches tasted just like their lager temp counterpart.
 
Not before packaging. I didn't have the ability to cold crash my fermenter

Also @Nosybear and @J A, you're obviously not wrong about how to produce a traditional lager. But for the majority of new brewers, that process is unobtainable, hence the desire to do a "warm fermented lager." Trying to mimic a favorite lager style without the technology to do so. I'm sure you remember being a new brewer, wanting to have your cake and eat it too :D

The point is that if you want to do a "warm fermented lager", exotic farmhouse ale yeast isn't the way to do it. I've made many, many keg of very passable lager-style beers without fermenting at low temps.Technology as simple as a tub and a tee-shirt and a fan will make a very nice and very traditional lager-style beer with 34-70 yeast. No matter what you do, Kveik yeast tastes like something wild and weird in comparison.
You can brew a beer at 90 degrees with Kveik. You may decide that you like the flavor of it. Even if you store it cold for 6 months, though, it's going to hang on to that strange taste of a Nordic farmhouse ale. It's not likely to strike anyone as a "lager".
In short, if you want a "lager", even fermented on the warm side, use a lager yeast. It works very well at 70 degrees which is warm for most brewing situations. If you literally can't figure out a way to ferment at less than 90 degrees, maybe you need to rethink some things and just be satisfied with whatever beer that Kveik is good at producing.
 
@BeerWolf
Fermented 2 ten gallon batches since my post. Each batch I separated into 2 - 5 gallon fermenters. 1 fermented at lager temp and the other fermented at 65-70 under 3-5 psi. All warm batches tasted just like their lager temp counterpart.
Even without pressure, I've had the same results. If it's 100 degrees outside and almost that in the garage, it's hard to achieve even as low as 70 degrees without real refrigeration but if it's 80 or 90, it's possible to do a swamp cooler and hold 70 which will make a nice lager style beer with 34-70.
 
Not before packaging. I didn't have the ability to cold crash my fermenter

Also @Nosybear and @J A, you're obviously not wrong about how to produce a traditional lager. But for the majority of new brewers, that process is unobtainable, hence the desire to do a "warm fermented lager." Trying to mimic a favorite lager style without the technology to do so. I'm sure you remember being a new brewer, wanting to have your cake and eat it too :D
Brew a Kölsch. Or Irish Red. Or Altbier. Or an APA. All of these use relatively clean yeast and warmer temps than Lager. Lagering is a finishing process, storing the beer at cold temps for a relatively extended period. To do one well requires cold fermentation. You can lager an ale, a kwiek, whatever you want but without the cold fermentation the closest you'll get is Kölsch.
 
for anyone brewing with Lutra, you will need to lager cold for at least a week just to drop the yeast and clarify, I recommend 2 weeks
 
To the already very good advice above I'd add this. After one's palate has adjusted to the frequent (or recent) consumption of highly hopped ales with exotic yeasts, a lot of things probably taste like passable "pseudo-lager". Not saying this to sound disparaging. It's a reality every judge and chef has experienced and we should take seriously if we want to understand how our recipes are perceived by others. It's also one powerful reason that it takes longer for people (even top brewers or chefs) with a long run of success in one style to succeed in another. It's not just that they are approaching the process differently, it's also that they are tasting things differently. Hope I didn't take OP too far off topic here. I just find it an interesting topic to consider.
 
To the already very good advice above I'd add this. After one's palate has adjusted to the frequent (or recent) consumption of highly hopped ales with exotic yeasts, a lot of things probably taste like passable "pseudo-lager". Not saying this to sound disparaging. It's a reality every judge and chef has experienced and we should take seriously if we want to understand how our recipes are perceived by others. It's also one powerful reason that it takes longer for people (even top brewers or chefs) with a long run of success in one style to succeed in another. It's not just that they are approaching the process differently, it's also that they are tasting things differently. Hope I didn't take OP too far off topic here. I just find it an interesting topic to consider.
It's a very valid point.
 
Hard to argue with Firestone Walker... But remember, they are trying to get good beer out as quickly as possible as a commercial brewery. We have other options. That said, my lager process isn't that different from theirs.
 
I was just reading this and thought it appropriate, but just another data point in the endless procession - https://beerandbrewing.com/myth-vs-science-a-practical-view-on-lager-brewing/
That’s pretty much the way I brew my lagers. I use a spunding valve and let the pressure build to 4-5 psi at 50F. Once the beer is going it’s left at 50F for 7 days, day 8 the temperature and pressure are raised to 56-58F and 10-15 psi. Day 9 the pressure is raised to 20 psi. The beer is held there until it’s been in the fermenter 14 days, it’s fully carbonated by then. Then it’s crashed to 32F, day 15 it gets gelatin. As soon as it clears it’s ready. That could be as little as 21-25 days from brewing. I taste the beer and when the sulphur level has drop that another indication it’s ready. Usually the dropping of the yeast corresponds to the sulfur level dropping. 34/70 works extremely well for this process.

The problem with warmed fermented “lagers” is that they still have an ale quality to them. That’s not to say don’t make them, but it does get you started with lagers. Wyeast 1007 is one of the best yeast to make hybrid. Ales lead to warm fermented lagers, which leads to hybrids and then traditional lagers. Now your hooked on it.
 

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