Tannins?

Dogwood

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Since getting this brewing sys, most of the beer brewed has had a strange flavor to them, almost a hoppy flavor but different. These are beers I have brewed before that were increduble, now I dont drink much of my beer! Stopped at a newer brew pub for some good brew and theirs was almost undrinkable, every one had the same taste that tasted like a bad hop, similar to what I taste in my beers but much stronger.. I did drink one (my wife sampled every one and ordered a bloody mary, no chaser) and still had the taste in my mouth hours later. After pondering on this, I thought that perhaps they ran lots of water through the grains to get every ferment-able out of it and maybe what it was is tannins? Hence, my sys has a herms unit on it and I keep water circulating constantly during mash. Is it possible that recirculating constantly would draw tannins out? Same yeast as always, safale O5. As I now have good control on mash temps and a temp control on my fermenter that I never had before, the beer should be very good. Any Ideas? Thanks

Doing some remodeling in my home and the Wife is tired of beer things in the way so she insisted I build a brew room. Still aways from being done but moving things in it! A bit of wiring and time to brew!!

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So can you try to isolate and describe that 'off' flavor? If I was near by I'd love to taste it.
Or is it more of a mouthfeel, like an alum-like puckering or dryness?
 
When I think of tannins, I'm thinking about beneficial antioxidants. Do a search including the terms "tannins antioxidants brewing".
 
When I think of tannins, I'm thinking about beneficial antioxidants. Do a search including the terms "tannins antioxidants brewing".
Well, i have a 15 gal batch ready for you! Lots of ways to get antioxidants! I will check it out though, I do eat a few things just because they are "good for me"!
 
Water in high bicarbonate will produce a nasty, harsh and unpleasant bitterness. Often it seems like it’s tannins, but try brewing the same beer with RO water. It may make a huge difference.
 
...Hence, my sys has a herms unit on it and I keep water circulating constantly during mash. Is it possible that recirculating constantly would draw tannins out?...
You could be getting tannins from the process, but I don't think it's so much the recirculation as how you're controlling the pH of your water. Do you adjust the pH of your water? All the water or just the strike water?

I'm a BIAB brewer, so I may be missing parts of the process. This assumes no acidification of the water and a starting pH of 7. Things will be worse if the starting pH is above 7.

About 15 minutes after doughing in, and with no recirculation, the grains should have pushed the pH under 5, probably well under 5. When you start recirculation, the 7 pH water will slowly drag the pH upwards. If enough water is added it will drag the pH up above 6 and as all the water is warm, that's when you get into the area that can start extracting tannins.

If you're not adjusting the pH of your water then you could try that for your next batch.
 
I'm wondering if he's dechlorinating his water. Chlorine can leave some nasty flavors behind. But I'd like a better descriptor of the off flavor and a good look into his processes before making too much of a diagnosis.
 
In conclusion, the samples with phenolic extracts showed a better stability in terms of turbidity, colour formation and foam quality.
The use of all studied phenolic extracts showed an enhancement of flavour stability and a protective effect on beer quality. The best results were obtained with the condensed tannins and in particular with the extract Oxnomore super (a high purity green tea extract).
Specifically, data analysis revealed beer with Oxnomore super as the most stable, limiting the increase in colour and turbidity and the loss of foam. Moreover, the panellists judged the beer added with Oxnomore super to be the most elegant for aroma and taste, with a smooth and rounded body. Further, Oxnomore super showed an interesting antioxidant activity: excellent inhibition of free radicals (DPPH), good reducing capacity against the Fe3+ ion (FRAP), and above all exhibited excellent oxygen scavenger action (ABTS) as demonstrated also by the substantial reduction of the dissolved oxygen.
Also, Oxnomore pro recorded relevant antioxidant power and excellent quality and analytical values, but especially improved the overall organoleptic beer profile. Grape seed tannins increased the citric and spicy notes, but above all increased the body of the beer, defined by the judges as more rounded.
This study confirms that the condensed phenolic extracts are a possible solution to counteract the effects of beer aging. According to our results, it is important to test the phenolic extracts before marketing them and then adding beer. This work makes it clear how each tannin can bring different characteristics to beer especially from the organoleptic point of view. Cooperation between universities and companies remains a fundamental aspect.
https://www.mdpi.com/2304-8158/9/11/1638/htm
 
+1 to all the suggestions above.

What stood out to me was the sudden onset and strength of this off flavor and that you detected the same off flavor in the beers from the local brew pub. Could it be your taste buds? There are numerous medications, in addition to illnesses like covid, that will affect your taste buds. Last year, after a root canal, my dentist had me rinsing my mouth with 50% Hydrogen Peroxide and 50% water. Everything (food and beer) I ate had a dull metallic flavor. That lasted until a week after I stopped needing to do that.
 
I'm wondering if he's dechlorinating his water. Chlorine can leave some nasty flavors behind. But I'd like a better descriptor of the off flavor and a good look into his processes before making too much of a diagnosis.
Well water, nada drop of chlorine! The taste is hard to explain but, My wife says it tastes like hops and a sour taste, it has a strong earthy taste to me with hops thrown in. Used very little hop on this batch. I dont think it can be contaminated, as the fermenter was thoroughly washed, sanitized and the wort is boiling when I transfer from boil pot to fermenter. One new thing I have been doing the last several brews is using white labs clarity ferm. Maybe using too much? I purchased a pint of the stuff so its not in the handy (and expensive) little vials!
 
+1 to all the suggestions above.

What stood out to me was the sudden onset and strength of this off flavor and that you detected the same off flavor in the beers from the local brew pub. Could it be your taste buds? There are numerous medications, in addition to illnesses like covid, that will affect your taste buds. Last year, after a root canal, my dentist had me rinsing my mouth with 50% Hydrogen Peroxide and 50% water. Everything (food and beer) I ate had a dull metallic flavor. That lasted until a week after I stopped needing to do that.

Great idea but, my Wife also tastes the same and other beers from cans to brew pubs taste (usually) very good. looking back, this started with the new brew sys and 15 gal fermenter. I think its time to do a few smaller batches!
 
I'm wondering if he's dechlorinating his water. Chlorine can leave some nasty flavors behind. But I'd like a better descriptor of the off flavor and a good look into his processes before making too much of a diagnosis.

Or a water softener
 
Is testing water only for ph or do I have to send a sample into a lab? I did a search for what I need but way too much conflicting info? Some said I needed to test water pre mash, others said to test the wert!
 

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