Off-flavor and little to no head?

[BigDenim]

So I'm still fairly new to brewing (probably brewed 5 or 6 extract batches now).

Two things I've encountered on just about all my batches so far is:

1.) An overly sweet and bready flavor. Not sure if I need to do a better job of regulating temperature during fermentation? Perhaps reduce the amount of priming sugar I'm using? Let it sit in the primary for a week longer or so?

2.) Little to no head. I'm getting okay carbonation, but the head dissipates pretty quickly. Any suggestions as to what I might be doing wrong or what can alleviate this?

Any thoughts?

Here's some details on my recipe, steps, and fermentation process for my latest batch, but again - I get this in just about all my brews. I've also since realized that not any and all grains can be used for steeping. Is it possible I'm getting certain off flavors from that bone-head amateur mistake of mine (that I will correct obviously...)?

It's a shame, because the recipe below creates a damn, good looking beer. I'll let it condition for another week and hope that some of the sweetness dies down.

Style: Saison
Original Gravity: ~1.055
Final Gravity: ~1.016

Boil Time: 60 min
Batch Size: 5 gallons (fermenter volume)
Boil Size: 3 gallons

STEEPING GRAINS:
0.25 lb - American - Caramel / Crystal 10L (2.9%)
0.5 lb - Belgian - Biscuit (5.7%)

FERMENTABLES:
4 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light
2 lb - Liquid Malt Extract - Light - (late addition; about 10 minutes left in boil)
1 lb - Dry Malt Extract - Light - (late addition; about 10 minutes left in boil)

HOPS:
2 oz - Czech Saaz (Pellet) -- Boil for 60 min
1 oz - Styrian Golding(Pellet) -- Boil for 30 min
1 oz - Nelson Sauvin (Pellet) -- Boil for 10 min

OTHER INGREDIENTS:
1 oz - Sweet Orange Peel, Time: 5 min

YEAST:
White Labs - Belgian Saison I Yeast WLP565
Fermentation Temp: 75 F

OTHER NOTES:
Rack to secondary after 1 week in primary. Bottle exactly 2 weeks after initial brew day. Condition in bottle for 2 weeks.

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

good beer.... but the yeast is the culprit, its known for phenols at any temperature above 60 so I think thats the culprit, try a different yest like us05 at 65 or drop down to 60 air temp and let up know

 

[BigDenim]

Hmmm good to know. I've posted on a few other forums and others recommend letting it sit for another week or so in primary.

Might try both and see if that fixes my problem. I'll keep you posted on results.

Thanks!

 

[Ozarks Mountain Brewery]

theres a quick fix or the real fix the real fix is the actual temperature fermenting at

 

[Nosybear]

Sweet and bready sound like underattenuation to me. Is the sweet flavor lingering? If so, it's unfermented sugars. Another thing the Belgian Saison yeasts are infamous for is stalling - they'll ferment down to 1.03 or so and stop for a while, perhaps requiring a finishing yeast. What's your hydrometer telling you? The Belgian yeast should finish at or below the predicted FG so if it's still high, say in the 20's, there's still sugar in the beer.

Head retention could be any number of issues but let's start with the most likely one: Soapy glasses. If you're washing your glasses or bottles with soap or in the dishwasher using a rinse aid, your glasses may have a residue on them that destroys the head. If the beer starts with a head that quickly dissipates, start looking there. Following that, I don't see anywhere in your recipe you'd get oils except, maybe, and it's a long shot, from the orange peel. Wash the glasses in plain water or, as my wife does, use vinegar as the rinse aid. Good luck!

 

[GernBlanston]

I got nothing specific, just general procedural advice.

1. Big healthy pitch of yeast into well oxygenated wort.
2. Temperature control during fermentation.
3. Patience! Allow the fermentation to finish. then give it another week. Just because there is no visible activity, the yeast is still working.
4. Don't expect your beer to be perfect a week or two after bottling. Give it a month or two, or six, to condition. You will have some carbonation in a week, but head retention and clarity come with time in the bottle. Fine particles and yeast drop out and the flavor will change.
5. Did I mention patience? Bottle a batch and then leave it alone and start working on the next batch, and then the next.
6. Do the Nosybear procedure for developing your skills. Find a simple recipe, and try to brew it several times to be exactly the same. Then change only one element and see the difference.

 

[bret america]

I only brew farmhouse style and 565 is my house yeast (1/2 my brews) - so hear is my 2 cents.

1. recipe - your DME / LME malt looks a little heavy at 7lbs - better at 5-6lbs. Also the hop schedule is a little more complex than I prefer. I generally single hop and do a lot of late hopping. I like the IBU around 30 for 565. Nelson is fun.

2. fermentation - give this yeast at least 3 weeks in the primary - no need to secondary. Let it ferment at 70-75 the first few days and then let the temperature rise into low 80s to clean up. I check FG at 1 week, 10 days, and then 2 weeks. Usually bottle the 3rd week (after making sure FG as stopped). Try to get FG below 10. 565 needs the higher temp to keep from stalling.

3. conditioning - I have found 565 tastes best at 6-12 weeks. The head develops strenth with a longer conditioning and should solve your retention problem. Toss in 1/2 lb of carapils or flaked wheat for a little better head retention too.

4. flavor - this yeast is more spicy / phenolic / yeasty than sweet. At higher temps is will produce esters but if you let it ferment correctly it will produce a dryer mouthfeel (not malty). The priming sugar has no effect on flavor - just more carbonation. I usually carb with 3/4 cup.

bottom line: I think your high malt bill (7lbs) and FG of 1.016 is your issue - residual sweetness. Let it bottle condition some more and it should turn out ok. Patience and simplicity is key with this yeast. Let 565 shine as it is great on its own.

 

[wolfie7873]

Is no one going to make the obvious joke?

I would suggest you start drinking cranberry juice. That should help with the off-flavor and result in more head.

 

[Nosybear]

Is no one going to make the obvious joke?

I would suggest you start drinking cranberry juice. That should help with the off-flavor and result in more head.

I'll assume we are still talking about beer....