High OG for Higher Volume?

[Cali Co Brewing]

I was reading recipes and came across a note that Guiness does a high gravity brew to produce bigger batches of finished beer.

Has anyone every tried this before?

I have 10-gallon vessels and have only ever produced 5-gallon batches. But, the idea of doubling my production by increasing my grist is appealing.

Thoughts, stories and cautionary tales welcome!

 

[GFHomebrew]

So you want to brew high gravity wort at let's say 5gal and dilute to a fermentor volume of 10gal?
I've not done this but id up yoyr IBU on your wort to compensate for dilution.
Others I know have done similar on here.

 

[Bubba Wade]

Yes, this is common with commercial brewers. However, if you’re going to try this, I would not start with a 1:1 dilution. This would mean you would need a very high ABV and your yeast might not like it. Also, you might run into some solubility issues with hop oils.

 

[Josh Hughes]

In some recipe books I’ve seen for something like Heineken, it looks like this from BYO. Mods please delete if I’m violating any rules

 

[Cali Co Brewing]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Ya, I was thinking to brew a pre-boil batch of 10 gallons then split that into two fermenters.

I understand that, with a high gravity wort, I’d need to compensate with higher IBU. But is that it?

 

[Craigerrr]

I would argue that for the mass producing commercial Brewers, this is standard practice to dilute after boiling. Is it that simple? I highly doubt it.

 

[Blackmuse]

Thanks for the feedback so far. Ya, I was thinking to brew a pre-boil batch of 10 gallons then split that into two fermenters.

I understand that, with a high gravity wort, I’d need to compensate with higher IBU. But is that it?

What do you suppose your end volume would be? 8 gallons? If that is the case then you aren't diluting all that much I'd suppose. It would probably look something similar to what @Josh Hughes posted - maybe you can do some backwards math with his posting to see what your pre-dilution numbers need to be to get the right post dilution numbers. Worth a shot I suppose.

Another option might be to get your 10 gallons and while that sets up to boil, continue sparging the grainbed until you hit the point you might start pulling tannins and then boil that for 10-15 minutes and use it as your dilution. The math there could get crazy! lol I have made small
1-2 gallon batches off the grains of a big beer as there was still plenty of residual sugar left after the initial sparge.

 

[Minbari]

I was reading recipes and came across a note that Guiness does a high gravity brew to produce bigger batches of finished beer.

Has anyone every tried this before?

I have 10-gallon vessels and have only ever produced 5-gallon batches. But, the idea of doubling my production by increasing my grist is appealing.

Thoughts, stories and cautionary tales welcome!

Generally speaking how I brew every batch. I ferment 5 gallons but only brew 4 and top up 1 gallon of previously boiled water (usually already I the fermentor.)
You do have to make your og measurements and use a calc to add top-up water or measure after you top up

 

[GFHomebrew]

The dilution calc on here should help estimate a good pre dilution gravity target to design your recipie around.

 

[Mark Farrall]

The local macro brewery here puts out 6-8 blond beers under different brands. The use the same high gravity wort for each beer. Some will get some additions prior to fermentation. All will get different dilution rates then other treatments post dilution. Things like longer lagering, different filtering or different hop extracts.

You could see it as the modern successor to the gyle system.

 

[Cali Co Brewing]

What do you suppose your end volume would be? 8 gallons? If that is the case then you aren't diluting all that much I'd suppose. It would probably look something similar to what @Josh Hughes posted - maybe you can do some backwards math with his posting to see what your pre-dilution numbers need to be to get the right post dilution numbers. Worth a shot I suppose.

Another option might be to get your 10 gallons and while that sets up to boil, continue sparging the grainbed until you hit the point you might start pulling tannins and then boil that for 10-15 minutes and use it as your dilution. The math there could get crazy! lol I have made small
1-2 gallon batches off the grains of a big beer as there was still plenty of residual sugar left after the initial sparge.

I’m guessing somewhere around there.
I like the idea of using the spent grain, almost sounds like a decotion mash which I’m a big fan of for my Czech premium Pilsner.

I think the addition of water is my main concern in terms of hitting my numbers. But if other brewers are doing it, why not me?

 

[Cali Co Brewing]

Follow up - I used the app to produce a recipe with an estimated boil size of 10 gallons and a batch size of 11 gallons (two 5.5 gallon batches), and all the numbers look good. I had to cut down on my grist and supplement with dextrose a bit just to make sure it would all fit in my mash tun.

Should be good times.

 

[naDinMN]

I was reading recipes and came across a note that Guiness does a high gravity brew to produce bigger batches of finished beer.

Has anyone every tried this before?

I have 10-gallon vessels and have only ever produced 5-gallon batches. But, the idea of doubling my production by increasing my grist is appealing.

Thoughts, stories and cautionary tales welcome!

I used to do something similar all the time, when I was apartment living. I'd brew a 2.5-3 gallons and dilute it to to 5-6 gallons for fermenting. I believe what Guinness does is ship the concentrated beer to a destination packaging plant, in another country, for dilution and packaging. So not exactly the same.

 

[Craigerrr]

Distillers do the same thing, I watched a documentary on Bacardi Rum, they ship it in huge rail car type liquid vessels at double the ABV to be diluted in the destination country for bottling. Cuts the shipping costs by, oh, about 1/2

 

[Cali Co Brewing]

Distillers do the same thing, I watched a documentary on Bacardi Rum, they ship it in huge rail car type liquid vessels at double the ABV to be diluted in the destination country for bottling. Cuts the shipping costs by, oh, about 1/2

(Tries to imagine what 160 proof rum is like)

 

[The Brew Mentor]

So the big boys will typically brew concentrated wort and ferment to save fermentor space.
Water is mainly added at packaging.
The water for blending should be pure, oxygen free, slightly carbonated and the same temperature as the beer being blended with it.
Hoppy beers are really hard to get taste right.
Concerns to address are FG, mouth feel, aroma, yeast stress, pitch rate, etc.
I've had better luck by adding boiled, hot water to the end of the boil, maximizing the volume of the BK just before the end of the boil. Then chill.
If you want to add post ferment, I can give you some tips on how I have done it.
Cheers
Brian

 

[Nosybear]

So the big boys will typically brew concentrated wort and ferment to save fermentor space.
Water is mainly added at packaging.
The water for blending should be pure, oxygen free, slightly carbonated and the same temperature as the beer being blended with it.
Hoppy beers are really hard to get taste right.
Concerns to address are FG, mouth feel, aroma, yeast stress, pitch rate, etc.
I've had better luck by adding boiled, hot water to the end of the boil, maximizing the volume of the BK just before the end of the boil. Then chill.
If you want to add post ferment, I can give you some tips on how I have done it.
Cheers
Brian

It also gives them complete control over the final ABV, required by Federal law.

 

[AHarper]

In the UK the maximum a brewer can "water" down a beer - thus reducing the ABV - is 20%. That's about 1.25% ABV difference - well that depends on the SG of course...