Stepping up from kit brewing

[kkourmousis]

I got some great info from you all! Nice community

Your equipment should be about 1.6 to 1.8 times the size of the batch.

I guess you are talking strictly about All Grain, right? Because, as others said, I could make a smaller brew, add some extract and then dilute it in the fermenter

Here is a very useful, and informative beginners guide right here on Brewer's Friend.

Thank you, I have already checked this out. As a newbie in homebrewing, I have spotted many inconsistencies between definitions, comparing different sources. Also, there are many factors missing from what it appears to be a good article. In this case:

I have found a very interesting post from another site, but I cannot post it because I am new member. I am pasting the most interesting parts:

the batch volume was not mentioned and because of this I was left to believe that you can create a dense enough wort of 1gal to dilute it up to 6gals. At the moment I am trying to clear things like sparge water analogies, evaporation rates and generally I am looking for formulas to calculate strike/pot ratio (when targeting either all grain or partial mash) and sparge/mash ratio.

Once you're comfortable with mini-mashing, Brew in a Bag setups allow an easy transition to all-grain brewing.

There, Nosy's Brew School, in three paragraphs. Whatever method you choose, good luck with it!

Great tips, thanks. I never heard of mini-mashing so far, I am going to spend some time comparing different sources about the definition (as with most home brewing definitions).

I feel like I am going to take most people advices on small batches BUT on the same time I feel like I want to try some all grain.

So, your advices have pointed me towards this plan (so far):

I am going to buy that 17L (4.5gal) pot and I am going to use it both ways:

• I will brew small all grain BIAB batches
  If I have understood it correctly:
  I will have to start with 7.5L (2gals) of strike and 3kg (6.6 pounds) of grain.
  After the mash, I will sparge with 6.5L (1.7gal) and start the boil.
  After the boil, and hydrometer test, the remaining wort will be around 10L (2.65 gal) and this is what a small batch would be. I made it 10L because I can buy a couple of cheap 10L fermenters

• I will brew normal-ish sized partial mash batches:
  If I have understood it correctly:
  I will have to start with 8.5L (2.25gals) of strike and 3.4kg (7.5 pounds) of grain.
  After the mash, I will sparge with another 8.5L (2.25gals) and start the boil.
  After the boil, and hydrometer test, the remaining wort will be around 13L (3.4 gal). Based on the hydrometer reading, I will add the required LME (or DME, don't know which - and why - yet) in order for the gravity to go 1.090.
  I would then cool it down a bit and pass the wort in the fermenter, where another 9L (2.35gal) of cold water will wait, to bring the total batch up to 23L and -hopefully- the OG to 1.055

So if I buy that new pot, a bag for the grains and a couple of 10L fermenters, I will be able to brew a normal sized partial mash batch for every 2 small all grain batches

So far so good?

 

[Sunfire96]

I brew all grain BIAB small batches (1-2.5 gallons) and I started last year. I wish I had started with extract, then moved through the progression that Nosybear laid out. Just adding my two cents

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

After the boil, and hydrometer test, the remaining wort will be around 10L (2.65 gal) and this is what a small batch would be. I made it 10L because I can buy a couple of cheap 10L fermenters

Everything in your plan sounds good except I would recommend being cautious about putting 10L of wort into a 10L fermenter. The reason is that during active fermentation the kreuzen can add significant volume. For the first few batches at least hook up a blow-off tube. This is a hose that either attaches to the airlock or fits into the fermenter opening. The other end will be submerged in a bucket with starsan in it. Any overflow will go to the bucket and not all over your fermenter and floor. Here are a couple examples.

I would assume any fermenter would have this factored in when they list the fermenter volume.

This is my 30L (8 Gal) fermenter. You can see that the fermenter's listed volume it not to the very top. I usually fill it up to 7.5 gal (28 L).

Edit: Corrected Typo

 

[Hawkbox]

I'm tired and not paying attention cause I was smithing all weekend but don't be scared of doing extract. It's not as "characterful" as all grain but it makes a decent beer and lets you focus on other areas like sanitation and kegging if you want to first.

Nothing to worry about either way, I'm a bit fried but hope that was useful.

 

[Donoroto]

I guess you are talking strictly about All Grain, right? Because, as others said, I could make a smaller brew, add some extract and then dilute it in the fermenter

I was trying to say what @BarbarianBrewer said just above. I have a 7 gallon fermenter, and its real capacity is about 5 gallons. Trying to ferment 7 gallons in it would be an ugly mistake.

 

[kkourmousis]

Oh okay, I now see that you were talking about equipment in general, not just pot/kettle. I will keep that in mind, thanks!

 

[kkourmousis]

With this in mind

• brew normal-ish sized partial mash batches:
  If I have understood it correctly:
  I will have to start with 8.5L (2.25gals) of strike and 3.4kg (7.5 pounds) of grain.
  After the mash, I will sparge with another 8.5L (2.25gals) and start the boil.
  After the boil, and hydrometer test, the remaining wort will be around 13L (3.4 gal). Based on the hydrometer reading, I will add the required LME (or DME, don't know which - and why - yet) in order for the gravity to go 1.090.
  I would then cool it down a bit and pass the wort in the fermenter, where another 9L (2.35gal) of cold water will wait, to bring the total batch up to 23L and -hopefully- the OG to 1.055

I made my first recipe, by copying and scaling this recipe.

Any advice or opinions are most welcome, just so I don't make a terrible mistake.

My recipe is available here in US and here in Metric units (not sure if there was an easy way for you guys to check it out in your units of preference, so I made a copy for each one)

Edit: Didn't bother scaling hops so much yet

 

[Mark Farrall]

Looks like a fairly old school West Coast recipe to me. There's things I'd do differently, but they won't really matter that much. The main thing is starting with something reasonable, working out what you did and didn't like. Then for the next batch changing to remove the things you didn't like. And this looks like a decent starting point. That said plenty of others will check this in more detail than me.

If you're using water from your tap, you may want to find some sodium or potassium metabisulfite, often called Camden tablets. Add a few grams of that, or half a tablet, as you're starting to heat your water and it will remove any chlorine or chloramine that can cause some unappealing flavours.

Also the old school approach of dry hopping for two weeks is dropping out of fashion. It has a tendency to give you more of the dank, vegetal flavours from the hops. I'm down to 2-3 days on some of my beers, others I'll keep to under 5 days. Though if you're after an old school dank thing (which I enjoy occasionally) feel free to go the full two weeks.

 

[Craigerrr]

Looks like a decent place to start.
If it were me, I would:

Change the 60 minute hop addition to Magnum. It is cheap, and it is a great bittering hop. This isn't critical or anything, Simcoe is just an expensive hop to bitter with.

I would use a dry yeast. Say Fermentis US-05, or S-04. Dry yeast is more economical, and you can pitch without worrying about aerating the wort.

 

[kkourmousis]

Craigerrr, I will change my recipe according to both of your suggestions, many thanks. Should I change all the Simcoe usage (both in boil and in fermentation) with Magnum, or just the 60min boil?

If you're using water from your tap, you may want to find some sodium or potassium metabisulfite, often called Camden tablets. Add a few grams of that, or half a tablet, as you're starting to heat your water and it will remove any chlorine or chloramine that can cause some unappealing flavours.

Also the old school approach of dry hopping for two weeks is dropping out of fashion. It has a tendency to give you more of the dank, vegetal flavours from the hops. I'm down to 2-3 days on some of my beers, others I'll keep to under 5 days. Though if you're after an old school dank thing (which I enjoy occasionally) feel free to go the full two weeks.

I have a double filter and I am using that water, straight away (it captures most of chlorine, chloramine and deals with bacteria and stuff).

I was too startled about the 2 week hopping, but I thought that was a common thing. I will definitely switch to 5-7 days (I am using a hop bag so I allow a bit more). Thanks

Edit:

As for the second batch I plan to do, according to this

I got some great info from you all! Nice community

• I will brew small all grain BIAB batches
  If I have understood it correctly:
  I will have to start with 7.5L (2gals) of strike and 3kg (6.6 pounds) of grain.
  After the mash, I will sparge with 6.5L (1.7gal) and start the boil.
  After the boil, and hydrometer test, the remaining wort will be around 10L (2.65 gal) and this is what a small batch would be. I made it 10L because I can buy a couple of cheap 10L fermenters

I was thinking either rescaling a recipe like this one , or alternatively I could try the recipes I am going to make partial mash with (the ones I posted above) and make them all grain (for a smaller batch). Maybe it will be interesting to check for differences of the same recipe between partial mash and BIAB. On the other hand, trying something different may has more to give (learning wise)

By the way, you guys don't have to answer if you don't have the time or anything. I feel like I am asking too much, so feel free to pass if you want, no hard feelings

 

[Zambi]

All good!
Ask away.
As long as you also show us the end result

 

[Craigerrr]

Only change the 60 minute additions.
I just looked again and see that you have Columbus at 60 as well.
Just remove those two and add magnum to give you 37 to 38 IBU's.
See where it shows the the theoretical IBU's for each addition.

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

By the way, you guys don't have to answer if you don't have the time or anything. I feel like I am asking too much, so feel free to pass if you want, no hard feelings

I can guarantee you don't have to twist anyone's arm to get to to answer your questions! So ask all your questions without fearing that you are irritating anyone.

Earlier you mentioned copying and scaling everything but the hops. Makes me wonder if you copied and scaled it manually or did you use the Copy and Scale tools in the Recipe Tools dropdown. Those tools make importing a recipe and adjusting it to your system super simple.

 

[Donoroto]

I feel like I am asking too much

We LOVE answering questions and proving how little we actually know!

Hops do two things*, one is adding Bitterness, the other is adding Aroma/Flavor. Bitter is Bitter is Bitter, so it makes not too much difference in which hops are used to bitter**. But Aroma and Flavor are very different, so those matter more.

Minor advice: After the fermentation is nearly done (usually 3 to 4 days) is a good time to add dry hops. The theory is that a little more activity left in the yeast will produce some CO2 to expel any oxygen introduced by the dry hop. Then let the beer sit another 3-4 days, same time as it took to (mostly) ferment, giving the yeast time to address some chemical conversions that are not sugar-to-alcohol but really should be allowed to happen. When I use US-05 yeast it takes me about a total of 10 days from yeast pitch to packaging.

*Well, more than 2 but these are big ones.
**It does make a difference but not a large difference really. The amount of Alpha Acid (mostly) determines the bittering power. But it is hard to tell which hops were used for bittering just from taste.

 

[kkourmousis]

I just looked again and see that you have Columbus at 60 as well.
Just remove those two and add magnum to give you 37 to 38 IBU's.

will do!

Earlier you mentioned copying and scaling everything but the hops. Makes me wonder if you copied and scaled it manually or did you use the Copy and Scale tools in the Recipe Tools dropdown. Those tools make importing a recipe and adjusting it to your system super simple.

Of course I was doing it manually

I will try the way you said and see how far off I got.

Edit: I was pretty close, I will keep what I did because I adjusted the DME as so I have ABV 5%. Anyone who wants to check them out again, the are here in US and here in Metric units (not sure if there was an easy way for you guys to check it out in your units of preference, so I made a copy for each one)

 

[BarbarianBrewer]

When I use US-05 yeast it takes me about a total of 10 days from yeast pitch to packaging.

If you are kegging, 10 days is fine. However if you are bottling I would recommend a little longer. The reason being that, if the yeast is a little pokey and taking a little longer, fermentation could continue after packaging. If that package is a keg, then no problem. However, if fermentation continues in the bottle, you could have a big problem. I always let it ferment for 3 weeks before bottling. Of course I'm still trying to figure out how to dry hop on day 5 and bottle on day 21 without losing any aroma. Next time I dry hop I may just have to take gravity samples daily so I can bottle sooner.

 

[Donoroto]

To clarify: I only keg, never bottle.

 

[Craigerrr]

I have only been brewing for three years, but feel like I have a University degree in brewing from all the help I have received here on Brewers Friend. I am quite happy to pay it forward, don't ever wonder whether you should ask a question or not.

 

[Craigerrr]

If you are kegging, 10 days is fine. However if you are bottling I would recommend a little longer. The reason being that, if the yeast is a little pokey and taking a little longer, fermentation could continue after packaging. If that package is a keg, then no problem. However, if fermentation continues in the bottle, you could have a big problem. I always let it ferment for 3 weeks before bottling. Of course I'm still trying to figure out how to dry hop on day 5 and bottle on day 21 without losing any aroma. Next time I dry hop I may just have to take gravity samples daily so I can bottle sooner.

IMHO that while 3 weeks should ensure the fermentation is complete. Taking a gravity reading is important to confirm that. I don't think that I ever went longer than 2 weeks when I was bottling, but I always checked the gravity to be safe.
In case you are wondering what the risk would be. You add sugar when you bottle to create a second fermentation which carbonates the beer. If the yeast isn't done fermenting when you do this you could create bottle bombs as there will be too much Co2 created, and too much pressure in the bottles. Exploding bottles are dangerous.

 

[Zambi]

If you scared of bottle bomb (bottling too early, too much sugar), then pack them in a box. Then, if they explode, the damage is contained.
Or, do like lazy me, and bottle in PET bottles
Anyway, using at least 1 pet bottle is not a bad idea as you can follow carbonation by squeezing the bottle