First time brewing a Helles

It didn't turn out so well :(. The first batch using this recipe turned out fairly well, though a little sweet. I had reduced the American roasted barley because the recipe calculator said it was going to be too dark. So, for this second batch I restored the roasted barley to it's previous amount and hoped that would reduce the sweetness. But this second batch turned out almost cloyingly sweet. The descriptor I find on American roasted barley is "Sweet, grainy, coffee flavor and a red to deep brown color".

But, that's not the only issue. There is also a distinct diacetyl (buttery) flavor in the beer. The possible causes of diacetyl: feeble/short boil, low fermentation temp, mutated yeast, racking too soon, bacterial contamination. None of those are likely.
  • I had a rolling boil for an hour, though the wind did cause the boil periodically reduce.
  • I created a starter off of a fresh pack of Wyeast 1084 and fermented at 62F (17C), the bottom of the yeast's temperature range.
  • I had it in primary for 24 days before bottling
  • Afterwards, I removed and cleaned the ball-valve and thermometer on my boil kettle. There was something black on the thread tape that I assumed to be a burn mark and not mold, but of all the improbables, this is the most probable :oops:.
  • One other possibility was the hops. The bags of fuggles were about 1/3 dust and didn't have much aroma. I assumed they were abused during shipping but, maybe they were just old and couldn't balance out the malt sweetness.

Next weekend I hope to brew this again but this time I will replace the American roasted malt with British roasted malt (which does not carry the sweet descriptor) and English brown malt.
Man I've not used American roasted barley but sweet would be the last thing I'd expect from roasted Barley.
Maybe try Thomas Fawcett their pretty solid maltster on the roast front.
I'd expect the BU/GU was probably out of wack like you assumed.
 
Underattenuation (sweet), diacetyl.... Stressed yeast. Either not enough yeast, not enough oxygen or one repitch too many. I wouldn't point toward infection because of the sweetness, roast malt is definitely not sweet, or the boil because that won't cause diacetyl.
 
Man I've not used American roasted barley but sweet would be the last thing I'd expect from roasted Barley.
Maybe try Thomas Fawcett their pretty solid maltster on the roast front.
I'd expect the BU/GU was probably out of wack like you assumed.

You are right, sweet is the last thing I did expect from roasted barley, but I found that descriptor on two different sites. One of them was BYO.com (https://byo.com/resource/grains/). The other BeerTools.com has the same description, word-for-word. So essentially a single source of that description.

The BU/GU was almost the same for each batch at 0.44 (original) & 0.45 (latest). Definitely going for all British malt next time.
 
Underattenuation (sweet), diacetyl.... Stressed yeast. Either not enough yeast, not enough oxygen or one repitch too many. I wouldn't point toward infection because of the sweetness, roast malt is definitely not sweet, or the boil because that won't cause diacetyl.

@Nosybear, I'm glad you don't think it's an infection. This the source of my diacetyl cause info: Diacetyl (2,3-butanedione)
I don't think it was the yeast because it was a new pouch and months away from the expiration date. I made a starter with it and don't remember any odd aroma. Because I overbuild starters and save some for next time, I was able to check that for any weird aromas and did not detect any. My aeration process is to drain the boil kettle through a double-mesh strainer. Apparent attenuation was 74.6% which is just a point shy of the first batch.

It's frustrating in that there are so many maybe-but-probably-not causes. :mad:
 
@Nosybear, I'm glad you don't think it's an infection. This the source of my diacetyl cause info: Diacetyl (2,3-butanedione)
I don't think it was the yeast because it was a new pouch and months away from the expiration date. I made a starter with it and don't remember any odd aroma. Because I overbuild starters and save some for next time, I was able to check that for any weird aromas and did not detect any. My aeration process is to drain the boil kettle through a double-mesh strainer. Apparent attenuation was 74.6% which is just a point shy of the first batch.

It's frustrating in that there are so many maybe-but-probably-not causes. :mad:
  • Caused By:
    It is produced by all yeast during fermentation, but is usually reabsorbed by the yeast cells. Non-reabsorption or over production is caused by feeble or short boiling, low temperatures during fermentation, mutated yeast, or racking too soon. It can also be formed by bacteria contamination.
I don't know why the source mentions feeble or short boiling - that's more applicable to DMS. I'm still guessing stressed yeast that wasn't able to reabsorb the diacetyl. Under-oxygenation, maybe? If all you do is pour wort through a double-mesh strainer, that may be your culprit.
 
A healthy pitch, lots of pure oxygen, a long low temperature mash,144-146 for 90 minutes. The most important element in just about any lager is a good aeration. The yeast is at a disadvantage due to cold temperatures and low reproduction in a cold, environment with a high level of CO2 compare to ales at higher temperatures.

Lots of yeast and lots of oxygen and a low temperature pitch makes a world of difference. The key is to focus on the yeast, give it everything needs. Your fermentation will start sooner and finish at a lower gravity and a lower pH. Even with a higher FG, if the yeast are treated correctly, the beer will come out much dryer.
 
Is shaking the hell out of the fermenter sufficient for aeration or is infusion with air or O2 really necessary?
 
My career has been short but I shake and swirl on the way to the stand I sit the fermenter on. This is whether I’m using dry or slurry. Not used a pack of liquid yet so hopefully it will work for that. Fermentation has always happened
 
Is shaking the hell out of the fermenter sufficient for aeration or is infusion with air or O2 really necessary?
Anything you can do is better. Shaking would work with dry yeast. Air infusion is better. I always oxygenate when using liquid yeast but I have the equipment - btw, a tank of O2 lasts nearly forever.
 
I drain from the kettle into the fermenter without a hose so I foam a lot in the transfer, which is as close as I get to oxygenation.

That's all I do. Going through a double mesh strainer get's a ton of foam. Sometimes so much I have to wait for it to subside before I can get the rest of the wort in. This next time I'm going to also use my stir-stick to make sure the air/foam is mixed into the wort. You can get too much oxygen into wort but, not too much air.
 
Is shaking the hell out of the fermenter sufficient for aeration or is infusion with air or O2 really necessary?
You just want an adequate amount of healthy yeast. Pure oxygen is one way to help that. A bit of yeast nutrient, a starter, if needed, and shaking the fermenter is another way. It also has the advantage of adding a few trace nutrients the yeast don't get from wort and oxygen.
 
I brewed today and it went really well. Due to a few factors (mainly the 12F weather outside), I brewed inside on the stove. However, the weather was perfect for getting the wort down to a nice cool 45F pitching temp before it went into the basement corner. OG came in around 1.050 and it was the clearest beer I've brewed yet. I did an extra 1/2 gallon vorlof than usual and added whirfloc to help with clarity. Now its the waiting game. I'll have to decide if I want to wait and taste this batch before brewing another one or not. It might be hard but my basement should still be cold enough to ferment lager when this batch is done.

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You just want an adequate amount of healthy yeast. Pure oxygen is one way to help that. A bit of yeast nutrient, a starter, if needed, and shaking the fermenter is another way. It also has the advantage of adding a few trace nutrients the yeast don't get from wort and oxygen.
On the other hand, when I use dry yeast, I don't aerate/oxygenate at all! Bottom line, if you're making the beer you like, you're doing it right.
 
Fully agree on that.

Mrs Kittle ;) That is one good looking sample.
 
Fully agree on that.

Mrs Kittle ;) That is one good looking sample.

Thanks. It 'chilling' in the basement now, and I mean that quite literally. After chilling it down to 45F on my deck, I moved it into the basement and expected it to warm up and settle aroud 50F. I check this morning and it actually dropped a half degree. I made a few adjustments and we'll see how it goes. I have an extra reptile tank heater that I might have to incorporate. I'm going to get it up to 50-52 F, take away the heat, and see if it'll settle in there or if it drops back down. I know lager fermentation is slow but is it enough to generate a couple of degrees in the wort?
 
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Thanks. It 'chilling' in the basement now, and I mean that quite literally. After chilling it down to 45F on my deck, I moved it into the basement and expected it to warm up and settle aroud 50F. I check this morning and it actually dropped a half degree. I made a few adjustments and we'll see how it goes. I have an extra reptile tank heater that I might have to incorporate.
Good temp for lager yeast
 
I know lager fermentation is slow but is it enough to generate a couple of degrees in the wort?
I pitch at 44-45F. I let it come up to 46-48 over 24-48 hours. Once it gets rolling hard (for a lager) the temp will come up 1-2 degrees above ambient at the most. The beer will hit 49F or so in a chamber set to 47-48F. I usually ignore the exothermic activity when I ferment that low.
 

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